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#448623 - 12/27/07 02:13 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Lento Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Canada
This is concerning the opening of rach 2, and the argument of broken vs solid.
Sergio Fiorentino talks about it in this interview.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=POGeQDn-Q5g
It's at around 7 minutes into it. In the next part of the interview (part 5) he says something along the lines that broken chords give the music more richness, and in the past, many pianist played chords broken (not just in rach 2) even when it wasn't notated

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#448624 - 12/27/07 03:27 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
There are many pieces that are not to my taste the way she plays them. But my taste is mine, and her taste is hers. I can't say she is lacking anything when it comes to playing piano, and I think she is a great pianist.

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#448625 - 12/27/07 09:21 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
jello_g Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 214
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Wow. A lot of pianist envy. I reiterate, we need more blonds playing piano!!

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#448626 - 12/27/07 09:22 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
To much hate in this thread alone.

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#448627 - 12/27/07 09:37 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
While I agree that Lisitsa's musical expression and style left much to be desired I certainly admire and respect her technical mastery of the monster piano. Hers is the typical result of matchless Russian training. She really knows how to relax in the most intense physical moments of piano playing. Repetative Syndrom is not a term in her vocabulary. Her level of the technical command of the instrument many of us mortals here would never achieve. I hold the highest respect for her technical prowess. Musically she is not great and yet not a slouch either. One can learn a lot just by watching her play anything on her Bosendorfer. I have all her three commercial DVDs. I watch them often and also use them to demonstrate to other piano students to simply concentrate on how she manages all those impossibly difficult spots with ease and aplomb...

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#448628 - 12/27/07 10:30 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
I am not jealous of her technique. Not because it isn't impressive, but because that is not something I am jealous of.

I am a big Hamelin fan, who, in my opinion, has much superior technique. Therefore, I am not jealous of her technique otherwise I'd be jealous of Hamelin.
_________________________
The clown is watching you.

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#448629 - 12/27/07 10:35 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
RachOn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 88
Loc: W. Pa.
I agree it's OK to break the Rach 2 opening chords -- I love Ashkenazy's performance!
_________________________
RachOn
Estonia 190; Yamaha U1

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#448630 - 12/27/07 10:38 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
Just look at the two pianists here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HY0WgCz5xPs

I like Ashkenazy's a little better.

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#448631 - 12/28/07 12:27 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21431
Loc: Oakland
I met Lisitsa this year, and spent an hour or so working on one piano while she practiced on another. She seemed pleasant enough as we went through the ritual of assuring each other that one of us would not be a problem for the other. I had another concert to tune for when her concert was scheduled, so I missed it. My concert was excellent, so I had no regrets, but I might have tried to get to hers if it were not for the conflict.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#448632 - 12/28/07 08:20 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
Sheesh, for a moment I thought I walked into a Bang Lang thread. \:\(
Couldn't we just agree to disagree in a thread that was necrobumped by some embarassingly gushy acolyte?
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#448633 - 01/01/08 04:17 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Svane Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Denmark
I’m sitting here with a lot of confusion, as to whether this topic is about the opening of Rach2 or the best pianist in the world (Valentina Lisitsa)

The Rach2 matter: I don’t care. The opening chords are only an introduction, and are not really referred to later in the concert, why does it matter? People who write big handed chords do it well knowing that a lot of pianists tend to break them. And most important of all, please don’t judge any pianist from whether he/she breaks these chords or not.

I believe that Valentina Lisitsa is the best pianist in the world, and I am happy to say that I base that statement on more than just YouTube videos. I realise that saying this in this forum might give me a few bullets I my head, but even so…

I won’t spend a lot of time saying nice things about her technique, because those who don’t agree with me on that matter are simply blind. I do however feel a certain lack of enthusiasm for her musicality.

Something in her interpretations has ‘caught me’ and left me to use 1/4 of my day in front of a piano. I remember jogging once while Reminiscences of Don Juan from her ‘Back and Pink’ release was playing in my ears from my iPod. That little time spent on jogging was not a nice trip to the Danish woods, but simply a magical journey, I was high, flying, and amazingly enough not at all exhausted from the jogging, due to the music in my ears. She takes that piece to such an amazingly high level of musicality and magic that no interpretation ever since has been nearly good enough for me (Nice trying though, Lang). And I could go on, Ondine (Those of you who won’t like the YouTube version will definitely like the bonus version on her newest DVD), Etude Tableau Op. 39, 6 [Not tableaux, the x is only added in plural,] Carmen variations (Amazing performance, even more when you know the fact that the piano apparently was one of the worst and most badly treated left in America.)

I spent a week of my summer on Iceland, and my god what landscapes, volcanoes, ice, everything, holes in the earth that were deep enough to fit every grand piano in the world! However, I had no piano around for that entire week, it filled me with desperation worse than what I can describe, I’m sure some of you knows what I mean.
My iPod is full of piano recordings (plus some songs from genres I think are frowned upon in here), I heard piano recordings almost constantly on Iceland to release myself of this desperate need to touch a piano – It occurred to me that the only recordings who could really reach into me and fulfil this need were those by Lisitsa (And one by Tharaud, Jeux d’eau, lovely!), her musicality and what she ‘does’ to Rachmaninov lit up my life, Valentina Lisitsa is my ecstasy, and that has nothing to do with her technique, though hers is the best I’ve ever seen (there’ I said it)

A friend of mine, who I thank for letting me know about this forum, sent me a mail with the topic “We saw it happen, so we have to believe it…”
He had been to concert and described it as “The performance of her life”
Apparently this was not just an amazing piano-recital (sure, we’ve all seen some) but nothing less than the experience of his life, my quote from his mail here is used by permission
[Quote start]
“she was truly incredible both musically and in technique but the total eclipse came when her adrenaline was flowing and the collective synergy was there in the concert itself. Then it all happened - the thunder, the lightning, the calm patches with twittering birds, the Sun and Sangria (Thalberg Fantasy, it was a pure Dream in Val's hands), the Appassionata that at one stage rippled with incredible lilt and at another snarled in anger, the Etude-Tableau that climbed the impossible with demonic ferocity, then - then the Liszt Totentanz. The volcano of Val's playing, the machine guns chattering from her incredible runs in octaves and other ghastly pianistic concoctions that turned the piano into a dance floor for gnomes and devils - what more can I say ?”
[Quote end]

Now, like many other musicians, Valentina Lisitsa has a MySpace page, Martha Argerich who also has an official MySpace page wrote a comment on Valentinas page on 4th of June “Beautifully Brilliancy Valentina.” This, however, is nothing compared to what she wrote some months earlier (Feb 27) “Thank you for adding me, you are real talent, one of the best I've seen here [On MySpace] so far.”
Those of you who disagree with the fact that mrs. Lisitsa isn’t just musical but much more than that, also disagrees with Martha Argerich’s opinion on that matter, and I think most people agree that Martha Argerich knows what musicality is and isn’t (Thanks for Rach3 Martha!).

I can’t make your hearts feel something they won’t but please reconsider your opinions concerning Valentina.

After having said all this (normally I’m not a big talker but once in a while you HAVE TO) I feel I can retire to my comfy hay tonite with peace of mind. Ah.

- A fan and admirer of Valentina Lisitsa.

Ps: I’m only 16, please go easy on me!
_________________________
"- To talk about music is very difficult, what music does to one, you know..." - Martha Argerich

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#448634 - 01/01/08 04:34 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
 Quote:
Originally posted by Svane:
I can’t make your hearts feel something they won’t but please reconsider your opinions concerning Valentina.[/b]
Gushy words like yours do not help your cause. You come across as just another acolyte. Just marry LawrenceLK and enjoy your fangasm.
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

Top
#448635 - 01/01/08 04:50 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17951
Loc: Victoria, BC
Rare would be the 16 year old who has enough listening experience and refined musical judgment to categorically state that any pianist is "the best pianist in the world."

Rare, also, is the 16 year old who realizes that such categorical pronouncements are irrational because they are based, primarily, upon unfounded, personal judgments that don't stand up to scrutiny and analysis. But the poster is only 16; one has to make allowances for that.

Time will, as it always does, attenuate the rash judgments of youth.

In the meantime, enjoy the performances of Lisitsa if such is your pleasure; no one can deny you that.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#448636 - 01/01/08 06:20 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by Svane:
I’m sitting here with a lot of confusion, as to whether this topic is about the opening of Rach2 or the best pianist in the world (Valentina Lisitsa)

The Rach2 matter: I don’t care. The opening chords are only an introduction, and are not really referred to later in the concert, why does it matter? People who write big handed chords do it well knowing that a lot of pianists tend to break them. And most important of all, please don’t judge any pianist from whether he/she breaks these chords or not.

I believe that Valentina Lisitsa is the best pianist in the world, and I am happy to say that I base that statement on more than just YouTube videos. I realise that saying this in this forum might give me a few bullets I my head, but even so…

I won’t spend a lot of time saying nice things about her technique, because those who don’t agree with me on that matter are simply blind. I do however feel a certain lack of enthusiasm for her musicality.

Something in her interpretations has ‘caught me’ and left me to use 1/4 of my day in front of a piano. I remember jogging once while Reminiscences of Don Juan from her ‘Back and Pink’ release was playing in my ears from my iPod. That little time spent on jogging was not a nice trip to the Danish woods, but simply a magical journey, I was high, flying, and amazingly enough not at all exhausted from the jogging, due to the music in my ears. She takes that piece to such an amazingly high level of musicality and magic that no interpretation ever since has been nearly good enough for me (Nice trying though, Lang). And I could go on, Ondine (Those of you who won’t like the YouTube version will definitely like the bonus version on her newest DVD), Etude Tableau Op. 39, 6 [Not tableaux, the x is only added in plural,] Carmen variations (Amazing performance, even more when you know the fact that the piano apparently was one of the worst and most badly treated left in America.)

I spent a week of my summer on Iceland, and my god what landscapes, volcanoes, ice, everything, holes in the earth that were deep enough to fit every grand piano in the world! However, I had no piano around for that entire week, it filled me with desperation worse than what I can describe, I’m sure some of you knows what I mean.
My iPod is full of piano recordings (plus some songs from genres I think are frowned upon in here), I heard piano recordings almost constantly on Iceland to release myself of this desperate need to touch a piano – It occurred to me that the only recordings who could really reach into me and fulfil this need were those by Lisitsa (And one by Tharaud, Jeux d’eau, lovely!), her musicality and what she ‘does’ to Rachmaninov lit up my life, Valentina Lisitsa is my ecstasy, and that has nothing to do with her technique, though hers is the best I’ve ever seen (there’ I said it)

A friend of mine, who I thank for letting me know about this forum, sent me a mail with the topic “We saw it happen, so we have to believe it…”
He had been to concert and described it as “The performance of her life”
Apparently this was not just an amazing piano-recital (sure, we’ve all seen some) but nothing less than the experience of his life, my quote from his mail here is used by permission
[Quote start]
“she was truly incredible both musically and in technique but the total eclipse came when her adrenaline was flowing and the collective synergy was there in the concert itself. Then it all happened - the thunder, the lightning, the calm patches with twittering birds, the Sun and Sangria (Thalberg Fantasy, it was a pure Dream in Val's hands), the Appassionata that at one stage rippled with incredible lilt and at another snarled in anger, the Etude-Tableau that climbed the impossible with demonic ferocity, then - then the Liszt Totentanz. The volcano of Val's playing, the machine guns chattering from her incredible runs in octaves and other ghastly pianistic concoctions that turned the piano into a dance floor for gnomes and devils - what more can I say ?”
[Quote end]

Now, like many other musicians, Valentina Lisitsa has a MySpace page, Martha Argerich who also has an official MySpace page wrote a comment on Valentinas page on 4th of June “Beautifully Brilliancy Valentina.” This, however, is nothing compared to what she wrote some months earlier (Feb 27) “Thank you for adding me, you are real talent, one of the best I've seen here [On MySpace] so far.”
Those of you who disagree with the fact that mrs. Lisitsa isn’t just musical but much more than that, also disagrees with Martha Argerich’s opinion on that matter, and I think most people agree that Martha Argerich knows what musicality is and isn’t (Thanks for Rach3 Martha!).

I can’t make your hearts feel something they won’t but please reconsider your opinions concerning Valentina.

After having said all this (normally I’m not a big talker but once in a while you HAVE TO) I feel I can retire to my comfy hay tonite with peace of mind. Ah.

- A fan and admirer of Valentina Lisitsa.

Ps: I’m only 16, please go easy on me! [/b]
I completely disagree.

I'll post a more detailed reason as to why I dislike Lisitsa.

So many of her Youtube videos have bee nothing but a fast flurry of notes. Examples are her Liszt Don Juan Paraphrase, Rachmaninov Etude No. 6 in A minor, Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 12, and Balakirev Islamey among others.

Her tonality is always so harsh and loud -- almost painful the the ears. And I wish I could say it is just the recording quality but after seeing her live 3 times, it is similar in person as well.

She is essentially the female version of Lang Lang in my honest opinion (without the pyhysical excessiveness): impressive virtuosity, but a n affinity towards showmanship rather than music.

How is she so famous? Likely because of her virtuosity. Then again, why is Lang Lang famous if he is consistently criticized so harshly from so many musical critics and listeners alike?
_________________________
The clown is watching you.

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#448637 - 01/01/08 06:56 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21431
Loc: Oakland
Well, if you do not like her playing, you do not have to listen to it. Listen to someone else, instead.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#448638 - 01/01/08 07:09 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
I do not.

I was merely replying to this thread. Unless you believe that every reply to this topic should be praising Lisitsa to the skies, I am merely voicing my opinion on her playing.

2 of the 3 times I saw her live she was a substitute for a pianist that made a last minute schedule change.

Meaning, I was unaware of the change until I arrived at the hall.
_________________________
The clown is watching you.

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#448639 - 01/02/08 04:49 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Svane Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Denmark
What a lot of nice people in here. Hm.

I forgot to say, she is the perfect role model.

GIVE KIDS A LISTSA!
^My rhyme
_________________________
"- To talk about music is very difficult, what music does to one, you know..." - Martha Argerich

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#448640 - 01/02/08 05:44 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LawrenceLK Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 4
I don't find submissions such as "Just marry LawrenceLK and enjoy your fangasm" to be a mature contribution to this discussion.

From my own perspective on Valentina I'd prefer "eargasm" if it were necessary to resort to such language.

Regards

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#448641 - 01/02/08 07:13 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
Wow, the Lisitsa tag team returns. If you want a good discussion, why don't you leave your altar for a minute and try talking about something other than your Mistress and Saviour -- such as, oh I don't know, the use of octatonic sets in late Scriabin, non-retrogradable rhythms in Messiaen's Preludes, or even the transformation of native rhythms and melodies in the piano sonatas of Ginastera. Or contribute useful information to any of the active threads without any reference to your Goddess Divine.
Otherwise, both of you are nothing more than walking Lisitsa infomercials -- cute little trolls who will never enlighten but who are always good for a laugh.
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

Top
#448642 - 01/02/08 09:34 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LawrenceLK Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 4
Of course we can (add to other threads), we are new to this forum, please give us time.

But I'd prefer you attack our views rather than attack us personally as you know nothing about us. I find personal attacks unintelligent and rude (..."good for a laugh"). I find that a very strange reception on a new forum and I have contributed to many forums but never encountered such school playground jibes, not ever.

I admire many other artists - Martha Argerich in particular, & not just pianists.

With all due respect, give new members time to find their feet, rather than demonstrate how up tight you are.

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#448643 - 01/02/08 10:03 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
If Gutierrez picked a pianist to substitute him, I am quite sure he knew well of the pianist capability. I'd say he knows more about piano playing that most in this forum.

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#448644 - 01/02/08 10:26 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LawrenceLK Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 4
"If Gutierrez picked a pianist to substitute him, I am quite sure he knew well of the pianist capability. I'd say he knows more about piano playing than most in this forum." -

Gutierrez gave us a really relaxed, informal but marvellous rendition of the Tchaikovsky #1 in the 1970s on live UK TV - he was great, he played with such conviction, nobody knew who he was then, and my concert pianist-trained wife at that time described him as "one of the best she'd ever seen" - & she knew, she was taught by Dennis Matthews and was a junior exhibitioner (at 12) at his favoured London College \:\)

I agree he has a reputation to uphold and that most likely he wouldn't want just anyone planted in front of "his" audience !

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#448645 - 01/02/08 10:56 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Svane Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Denmark
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
Time will, as it always does, attenuate the rash judgments of youth.
[/b]
Many of the, so to say, older people liking Valentina will be pleased to know that they once again (due to their 'rash' judgements much alike mine) are in their youth. So I guess some people never grow up?
_________________________
"- To talk about music is very difficult, what music does to one, you know..." - Martha Argerich

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#448646 - 01/02/08 11:00 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
It might be time for this thread to close.

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#448647 - 01/02/08 11:04 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Lento Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Canada
I'm sure that after a few more pages of this discussion, we will all come to share the same opinion concerning Valentina Lisista. I find that this is usually what happens.

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#448648 - 01/02/08 11:59 AM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
iconoclast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 389
Loc: Ancramdale, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
There are many reasons why classical music appeals to a small (and increasingly smaller, alas) group of people. I can't quite escape the feeling that one of those reasons is the hypercritical cannibalism ( ;\) ) often on display on forums like this. It makes classical music seem like elitist entertainment, and its adherents like snobs for whom nothing is quite good enough.

If I'm reading Sam correctly, that is what seems implied in his gentle slap on the collective wrist. [/b]
What he said. Classical music's an interpretive art folks; if you don't like one performer's version listen to somebody elses. Carping about whether so and so's pedaling is historically authentic or whether broken chords are correct for people whose hands are too small is IMHO an utter waste of time.......

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#448649 - 01/02/08 01:32 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off!
Jeff135 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 912
Loc: Oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by LisztAddict:
If Gutierrez picked a pianist to substitute him, I am quite sure he knew well of the pianist capability. I'd say he knows more about piano playing that most in this forum. [/b]
He did not choose the substitute, our music director did, who is good friends with Lisitsa (so it seems).

And even if he DOES like her, music is subjective. And, so far, I'm not a fan.

So sue me.
_________________________
The clown is watching you.

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#1953978 - 09/04/12 07:31 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
MarioToroOfficial Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/08/12
Posts: 9
Loc: Florida
***


Edited by Kreisler (09/04/12 07:49 PM)
Edit Reason: garbage deleted

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#1953982 - 09/04/12 07:49 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: MarioToroOfficial]
Para Otras Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 309
***


Edited by Kreisler (09/04/12 07:49 PM)
Edit Reason: deleted quote and commentary on the garbage i just deleted

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#1953998 - 09/04/12 09:11 PM Re: Valentina Lisitsa - Show Off! [Re: seximoleximo]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4763
Loc: USA
i sort of agree, except i'm not angry about it. i couldn't care less! in my experience listening to her, she plays the chopin etudes flawlessly. when it comes to the chopin etudes, i dont think her musicality stands out, but i don't think she lacks musicality while playing them.. so i'll give her that. on the other hand, her interpretation of the e-flat chopin nocturne is absolutely horrible in my opinion. that's just my taste though.

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Piano with Willie
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How to practice a fast piece for amateur competitions
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Cromatic lead in Elton John song
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Chopin experts: this is driving me nuts
by riley80
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