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Here's where I think you've wrong. IMO music is musical and has musical reasons even if it is just because it's music. Some are poor, others - not. I sincerely doubt Chopin's intentions on writing this etude (and whichever else, of course) were to simply "show off the technique of the performer".

hmmm a post about speed and liberace is still just and entertainer. That is pretty amazing to me. Obviouslly there isnt to much better technique, he was one of the fastest. Yeah he was incredibly showy, but that was not the point.

The Argerich link posted earlier in this thread is indeed prodigious. Very fast, but she gets all the correct notes in, for the most part. It does indeed speed by a hair too fast to make sense in a musical line, but give credit where it's due. The Adele Marcus cd with that Prelude in b-flat minor should be announced toward the end of this year--watch out folks. It's absolutely a wake-up call for pianists who haven't heard her beautiful sound and genius level of taste and musicianship. It should become a benchmark release, although it cannot compare to her sound in the teaching studio.

My own YouTube posts so far are audio only--but videos should be released soon for Rach 2 and Prokofieff 3 concerti~

There are (a few) magnificent pianists out there who don't tour, are not widely known, don't have a big reputation. And when one considers how disruptive touring is to practicing and learning repertoire, I think that's not surprising. I hope an announcement of Ms. Marcus' record will appear here when it's ready.

So you seriously think that Kissin, for example, plays the etude as fast as he can in whatever recording we're talking about here? Does he sound like he couldn't do it any faster? If Kissin could, in fact, play the etude faster than in the recording, then wouldn't you assume that your line of reasoning kind of breaks down? For crazy, there's always Gould and his Beethoven and Mozart recordings. How fast, again, did he take the beginning (at least) of the third movement of Op. 27 No 2? 208 bpm? And then there is the first movement of Op 111, and the prestissimo of I forget which, and a number of others...

Think of that as a hypothetical situation, or substitute Kissin with somebody brilliant who has actually recorded the piece...

come on guys, op 10 no 2 isn't exactly the most musically significant of the etudes... in fact it's definitely the least.

But it sounds nice when not taken too fast. I'm sure at least half of the pianists who have recorded it could have used a faster tempo than they did. I'll say the same about any other etude that has aesthetic value. On the other hand, almost every pianist except for Gould and Hofmann could have worked a bit more on the control and evenness and clarity of their playing... So meh...

Make that "much faster" and we're communicating...

I still doubt that very many pianists could pull it off live as well as Wunder.
Wunder isn't the first pianist to come along and try to "shock" the world with his tempi and vertuosity. Surely others before him would have recorded their fastest possible 10/2 just for fun...
LOL and who's to say Wunder couldn't take it faster as well?

Wunder looks like a marionette being operated by the piano, and the piano doesn't seem to like him. The marionette doesn't seem to like it either. It's like witnessing a beating. I don't think he could take it significantly faster than that: he can only with effort take it as it is.

Just for fun? I don't know... Most pianists just seem to respect Chopin's allegro marking. And some think it's an awkward piece that requires otherwise useless tricks to pull off.

Who knows? He might be able to. I was just saying it wasn't really fair to Kissin and Tiempo and anybody else to count them out. Only they (and maybe their teachers) know what theyre fully capable of, y'know?

I'm sure kissin and tiempo couldn't care less about wunder or how fast he can play. they are already well established. kissin gets 50k per concert, or so i've heard.
anyway, the second they start surfing the 'net, they'll come across wunder, and hopefully they'll produce something better! (or at least faster;))

Here is Wunder playing this etude in a castle:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...0&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I don't see the point arguing who can take any piece at a faster tempo. I would actually presume that one's tempo in a particular recording is the one that he actually wants to play it in. I don't see much sense in supposing how fast can a pianist take a certain piece, as there's physical proof of how he feels he should play it.

If you want a little comparison: listen to Wunder's recording of Liszt - Feux follets, and then compare the tempo to Arrau's...

I don't have the Arrau recording... Wunder takes it significantly faster than Cziffra, if less restrained/controlled than the great master.
Comparisons are pointless, however.
I just started this thread to marvel at/discuss this young pianist's incredible technique.
lol I'm emailing Wunder right now and asking him how he got so beefy.

haha make sure you inform us if he replies. im curious as to what he'll say.

Arrau's better than both.

Now, that's fast!

But, I like Pogorelich's version more, because he really plays very smooth and his sound is amazing. Perfect.