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I need help with the Etude in D sharp minor. I have the Dover edition music. In the beiging on the song(The main part) The bottom notes start off as being two D#'s. Than its a D# and F#. Than it says D# and G# (thats like an impossible strectch. But it doesnt say to roll. Am I just reading the music wrong or are you supposed to roll it? And out of a 1 to 10 difficulty what would you give this song?

Is this the Opus 8, #12? Is it in the first two measures? Are you reading it correctly? I have the music in front of me (Russian Edition) and I can't figure out what notes you mean. Be specific in the measures and notes. There are some mighty stretches and skips--yes.

I haven't played it, but that's not an impossible stretch if you've got decent sized hands. I don't think there's any way the right hand could cover it for you, so if you can't stretch it, then you'd probably have to "roll" it by striking the low D# and jumping to the high G#.

As I haven't played it, I couldn't say what the difficulty is. Good luck with it!

Scriabin had very large hands as far as I know, and most composers who were also pianists who wrote piano music wrote for what their own hands could accomodate it. I am learning this piece as well and there's no way I could reach it, so you have to do a very deft roll that sounds as much like a solid chord as possible. I have enough practise with that so it's not terribly difficult, just practise them on their own for awhile, add in the rest of the LH accomp., and finally the RH.

Remember in some cases you can take the note with the other hand (like some of the high B jumps)

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Scriabin wrote some very difficult music for the left hand. If you want to know how difficult this piece is, i'd just urge you to take a look at those extremely wide left hand figurations. It's tough.

I played this etude for a recital 3 or 4 years ago. It is pretty difficult, it took me a good year to get comfortable performing it. I know what part you are talking about, and you have to roll it quickly, while making sure you don't accent the top note. That's the only way most people can do it. I can barely reach a ninth, and from what I've read Scriabin could only reach a ninth as well, and couldn't even reach the chords in most of his music.

Another testimonial for that hard left hand. playing this piece consistently perfectly is hard. Scriabin's music is impossible to master for those who have feeble left hands. I always assume that people who want a 1 to 10 difficulty rating are encroaching on uncharted territory. When you look at this piece and its possible difficulties are easily overlooked. Then, and only then,will you be ready my young grasshoppah.

I don't see a G# in the LH part at all for the first two measures. No G# is present until the 4th measure but the skip is no bigger than the others. It would help to make sure I'm looking at the right part and the right Etude. It is the famous one, Op. 8, Nr. 12--right?

I played this in college and don't remember it as being insurmountable.

Yea the Op. 8 No. 12. Varcon. Yea im talking about the G# in the 4th measure. If I try I can reach it. I have pretty big hands but I have to strech.

Ok--Thanks for the clarification, Skriabin! Now I know what you're referring to in the music. Some hands--large ones can make that interval but others with smaller hands have to 'roll' to make it. At the speed of the piece it's a difficult interval to play. I can reach an 11th but 10ths are much more practical for me. I just wanted to know exactly what your reference was and now that I know--thank you!

It is very tiring for small hands, the right hand doesn't really give you a break either, it's constant octaves and large chords. I could only practice it for short intervals, and in the recital I made sure to put it last on the program. On a postive note, I did notice that after I played it, my hands did seem a little more flexible.

this is the kind of piece that makes me glad i'm left handed!

with the octaves, make sure you relax, relax, relax -- after every one! my teacher also taught me to practice by rolling my hands slightly outward after playing each octave, in order to change the hand and finger positions slightly to prevent stiffness/soreness/overworking the muscles. helps a lot.

Skriabin: your original post also seemed to be asking the quesiton whether rolling the 10th and 11th chords would be permissible, even though the composer made no such notation.

This is one of those issues that people can argue forever. Some are so dedicated to the fidelity of the manuscript that no deviations are allowed. In other words, if your hand is too small, then don't play it. On the other side, some piano teachers habitually allow students to--in your example--roll the big chords, or redistribute the notes to the other hand to make it playable.

If you're working with a dogmatic teacher or learning this piece for a competition, then good luck. But if you're learning this piece for your own musical, spiritual nourishment, ask yourself: would anyone you know truly care whether you roll the chords?

Roll it. It's unhearable too; the right hand has the melody; the left hand is just colour. (except for the octave basses at some parts in the first page)
I rolled it, unconciously playing the d# before the beat, and the f#/g# on the beat. (this is the most natural movement to me)
I've heard people play the triplet, broken as 16ths, but that sounded too "schoolish" to me, didn't like it.

I've played this in recitals for about half a year. Very satisfying to play, but don't expect to ever play it flawlessly.

The D# and the F# I can reach. The D# and the G# I cant. I do not have small hands I actually have quite large hands. Thats quite a big strech if you ask me. Well I haven't even started my lessons yet I've been self taught for 4 or 5 years. Im starting lessons tuesday(It will be my first) So my guesse is since this is my first lessons my teacher is not gonna let me learn the Etude.

My opinion on this is that when you see
seemingly impossible stretches like this in
piano music you could of course play it
as written if you have large hands or roll it
if you don't, but I think this is actually
wrong, because these are apparently cryptic
indications that you employ tempo rubato
around the impossible stretch: for example,
in bar 5, hit the d-sharp then the E#-b-f#
chord in the r.h. and then the g#, all in
the approximate space of a beat. You see
this also in the Chopin mazurka in a min.
op. posthumous, huge stretches in both hands
that are seemingly impractical if not
impossible. Chopin had small hands and
could never reach these, but he was a master at
rubato. If you listen to the Cortot
recording of this mazurka, he doesn't seem
to be playing the large chords but rather
appears to be employing rubato instead in
a bewildering variety of ways.

I agree with Anima. I've been working on this for a couple of months now. I would never be able to make those reaches, and would certainly spring an irreparable case of tendonitis if I tried. Sometimes there is no choice but to roll, and for all but the extremely large-handed, this is one of those.

Once you get the piece close to tempo, no one will notice the rolls.

I have very small hands, but still managed to play that piece. who knows, your limitations can become your benefit.

I found the reason. Maybe I was stupid but I can reach the D# and G# with just a little strech now. I realize I was trying to streach with my Pinky and my thumb. I can do it id I use my Ring finger and my thumb.