Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#460096 - 10/01/01 06:06 PM Mozart Sonata
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4110
In Mozart's Sonata k.330 (#11), there is a trill in the beginning. Should I play it on the main note (starts on C and alternates with D) or start on the next note, which is D (since in mozarts time this was the practice). If I start on the upper note, the left hand notes fit in nicely with the right hand, (one left hand note for every two in the trill), but when I start on the main note the trill is on, the notes do not line up. Which way is recommended?

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#460097 - 10/01/01 06:49 PM Re: Mozart Sonata
MacDuff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 560
Loc: Southeast, U.S.A.
In this case, I'd start from above (D-C).

By the way, in the 3rd mvt., I'd play the trill in the 4th measure starting on the main note, as that note is a "passing tone."

Top
#460098 - 10/02/01 03:34 PM Re: Mozart Sonata
Amy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 433
Loc: Upstate New York
I am also studying a Mozart sonata and my teacher told me that all the trills start on the upper note.
_________________________
-Amy-
*Visit my page! http://www.expage.com/pianopalace

Top
#460099 - 10/02/01 05:04 PM Re: Mozart Sonata
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17829
Loc: Victoria, BC
Amy:

Your teacher (and you) might be interested in the following paragraph which I am quoting, in part, from the General Preface of the Associated Board Edition of the Mozart Sonatas, edited by Bowen and Raymar, with the introduction written by Aubyn Raymer - admittedly an old edition:

"Leopold Mozart insists that every trill, even the shortest, must begin on its auxiliary or upper note. Nevertheless, musical sense soon finds necessary exceptions to this general rule. Possibly ancient theorists, equally with composers, could risk taking for granted the diffusion and functioning of musical common sense and knowledge both among amateurs and public performers. It would be absurd to begin Mozart's B flat Sonata (No. 3), for example, on C, or to open the Adagio of the Second Sonata (F major) on any note other than C. One might as well alter the sense of Bach's Fugue in F sharp major (No. 13, Bk. II.) by starting it on the tonic. Possessed of the slenderest information, hardly anyone is likely to start the Prelude in G minor of the First Book on a ninth, except by sheer inadvertence. In playing Mozart, the student may make for himself a counter-rule (to the ancient prescription) for [trills] which occur on the first note of a movement, on the first note of a new phrase, or after a rest..."

Interesting?

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#460100 - 10/03/01 05:07 PM Re: Mozart Sonata
yok Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 463
Loc: New Zealand
Just to show how little consensus there is over matters of ornamentation, the latest ABRSM edition of the Mozart sonatas contradicts the older one mentioned by Bruce. Raymar wrote that "It would be absurd to begin Mozart's B flat Sonata (No. 3), for example, on C," yet in the newer edition Denis Matthews suggests exactly that. In fact the C is like a leading note onto a short trill beginning on the B flat in Matthews's realisation. I have always played this and it doesn't sound absurd to me.

BTW in K330 I always start the first trill on the D.

Top
#460101 - 10/05/01 10:53 PM Re: Mozart Sonata
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4110
In the first movement of the same sonata, there is another trill that occurs early on- there is a # sign above and below the trill sign, above E and than A when it repeats. What should I play, I ask this because the G schirmer edition has a a footnote on it and it is rather strange, there is a D in the trill, but it is only supposed to be E-F. (what do the sharp # signs do to it?) Thanks!

Top
#460102 - 10/06/01 02:08 AM Re: Mozart Sonata
yok Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 463
Loc: New Zealand
I guess you mean bar 37 and the same figure at 124 in the recapitulation? It seems like the Schirmer editor suggests a turn (E-F#-E-D#-E-F#, hence the two sharps above and below the marking). It is often the case that Mozart intended a turn when he simply gave a trill marking, and it sounds quite good here (I just tried it). In the recapitulation you will need to play G# if you use the turn, and B natural. The simplest thing would be to play an inverted mordant on the E (up to F# of course)- but this would be breaking the always-start-on-the-note-above rule (which is not really a rule). The ABRSM edition I use gives F#-E-F#-E-F#, the last F# being the demisemiquaver after the trill note. The first three notes are played as a triplet.

Out of curiosity, how are you fingering the rather awkward trills in bb. 127-128 and 135-136?

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
75,000 Members and Growing!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
148 registered (36251, AndrewJCW, AmateurBob, 42 invisible), 1778 Guests and 19 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75509 Members
42 Forums
156142 Topics
2292925 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Pianist Noah Landis - Lowell, MA Sept. 6th
by Piano World
07/24/14 06:09 PM
Guidance for Publishing
by Dachshund
07/24/14 06:02 PM
Keith Emerson Playing NY in October!
by Piano World
07/24/14 05:52 PM
Action parts any different from 80s,90s, 2k Charles Walter?
by Gatsbee13
07/24/14 04:36 PM
Question about finger reach!
by Plopsy
07/24/14 04:23 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission