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This has probably been discussed before but I would like some fresh opinions. I think that at the level I'm at I should be dedicating a lot more time at the piano practicing. It could take me two weeks to finish a piece that I could realistically finish in a day or two if I practiced efficiently (I hardly ever run into technical problems in my pieces). However, I find that if I am playing a piece or two in one sitting I get tired out quite quickly and I find this quite annoying because I would like to be making steady progress. I have sometimes tried to continue playing past the point where I get tired but it's as good as not playing at all. So then I have to return to the piano an hour or two later. So, essentially, my question is how do you build up the patience and vigorousness (along with focused practicing) to learn pieces quickly and efficiently?

Thanks in advance.

If you are getting mentally tired during one sitting, try taking a break and then have another go a little later. You might find the break refreshing and when you sit down again, you'll be able to continue working efficiently. Either that or it won't work. Really, you just have to figure out a system for practicing that works well for you.

I don't really understand what you mean when you say you "get tired out."

Are you mentally or physically exhausted??? (i.e., do you have trouble concentrating, lose interest, etc. OR do you get physically weak or lack stamina?)

I personally do my best practicing early in the moring soon after I wake up. That is my best "learning time" even if I only practice for 30 minutes. But everyone is different.

Mentally. It seems I can't just sit and learn you know. I don't have ADD or anything because I can spend 5 hours in my room studying for a test without going insane. I don't quite know why this happens because I certainly love the piano more than calculus...

It is called self discipline. And one grows into it as one learns to play.

Are the pieces boring you, or just that you can no longer sit there?

Each piece, each phrase, and sometimes each measure, needs to be practiced over and over. I have beginners start with 5 times correctly. Note that I mentioned 'correctly'. That is called 'practice'. And practice is different than sitting and just playing or fooling around. That can be done at a different play session.

I too do my best in the morning too, and take frequently breaks.

Practice
Coffee
Practice
Read here
Practice again! Etc

I suggest to beginners that even 15 at a time done 3 times is better than a 45 minute session. You are fresh at each session.

Also a variety of pieces to practice makes the sessions more interesting. Not just one piece over and over. Depending on the student, and how long they have played, I usually have them playing 3-10 pieces at a time. ('How' would be another discussion, unless someone wants to know here)

Longer pieces for more advanced players, which include several different sections, is like playing more than one piece. We concentrate on one section at a time (equals beginner's one piece)

I hope this helps.

PS - I also don't advocate to learn a piece 'quickly'. Once the notes are learned there are so many other things to concentrate on to become a good musician!

I will address your main question, but first I wanted to talk about this. What do you consider "finished"? Getting the right notes at the right time? Memorized? Somewhere in between? The more advanced you get, the longer it will take in general to "finish" a piece to the level of performance standards. One could work on a piece for months. This idea that you could work on a piece and get it in a day or two troubles me. Either your standard is too low and you are not working on the details necessary, or you are playing music that is way below your level and thus losing interest. Either of these could be a big clue as to why you are having a hard time keeping concentration.

How long are you practicing for now? What does an average practice session for you consist of?

Well, I'm not necessarily talking about very difficult pieces. For example, I was learning the Brahms Waltz No. 15 and it's a really easy piece and I do like it a lot but I just couldn't learn it with focussed practice and it took me longer than I wanted it to. For more difficult pieces I will, of course, take my time with it, like Beethoven's Tempest sonata which I'm now working on.

I consider a piece finished when I can play it without music, up to speed, and with the dynamics in complete control.

I don't know if I exactly lose interest because I do want to learn the piece but I guess I get kind of frustrated with how long it takes me.

I typically practice 2-3 hours a day including scales, Hanon, Czerny, and the like six pieces I'm working on... :rolleyes:

Thanks, Morodiene.

I hope this does not sound trite, but I would recommend physical exercise that gets your heart rate up in-between practice sessions (stationary bike, jumping rope, running up and down stairs, etc.) Some people recommend yoga-type exercise, but I find that it is the rigorous exercise that helps with stamina at the piano.

I have found a direct connection between the amount of physical exercise I do and my ability to sit for long periods (1 hour + ) at the piano with high energy, clear focus and concentration, and without fatigue.

My 2 cents.
Virginia from Virginia

Just a little idea; maybe you're sabotaging yourself by classifying pieces as "easy" straight off. Obviously the Brahms wasn't so easy for you after all but maybe by dismissing it as such you neglect to pay it the slow, detailed attention it deserves? Often the simplist pieces require patient study to find and bring out their full, subtle beauty. I love to hear great pianists play "simple" pieces, you hear unthought-of beauty! Maybe do a lot of listening for inspiration to get you over your impatience.

I don't think that it was difficult for me to learn as much as it was difficult for me to memorize/sight-read it. This is always my weakest point when learning a new piece but I played it for my teacher yesterday and she thought it was really fantastic.

I have no problem getting out "subtle beauty" I believe; I do pay close attention to what I want to convey to the listener when I play a piece like this so I don't think it's just easy stuff that I should learn lightly and then toss aside (I did, after all, pick this piece myself).

Also, I have recordings of every piece I play and I listen to them at least every day or so but I don't think it helps because I do know how the piece should sound and I do know what I'm aiming for.

I suppose I just have trouble focussing at the piano, patiently sight-reading and memorizing. :rolleyes:

OK, this gives me a better idea of what's going on. You say you practice 2-3 hours a day, and I think that is perfectly fine for the level of music you are playing. Should you desire to practice more than this, just try to give yourself lots of breaks. Learn to pay attention to your body and mind as to when you are losing attention. You will not be able to learn as much after this point, so it's best to stop, go do something else, and return when you feel rested. You may not ever be able to sit for 4 hours straight, and that's OK. I don't think that sitting for 4 hours with no break or little rest is ever a good thing anyways.

If you're currently working on pieces like the Tempest, it is going to take a while to perfect it to the standard that you are stating. There's no easy way around this. Except, you mentioned your sightreading. Beethoven, for example, is pretty easy to read compared to say, Debussy. Perhaps you should include some sight reading exercises in your practice. It will get the beginning stages out of the way quicker for you. Honestly, the best thing that I've learned to help my sight reading, which used to be awful, was to accompany voice students and play church services. I encourage you to do this, because not only is it a practical way to improve sight reading, but you can get paid for it as well.

What might help you would be to set yourself a goal before you sit down and practice. Have goal for how far yo want to get into the peice before you begin.

You have the problem that I used to have when I first started playing... You want to learn too much too fast, so you seem like you cant learn because you are in such a rush that you cant focus..

Maybe work on selecting a peice you enjoy 100% I find that I can learn a technical piece that I enjoy much faster than an easier peice that I am forced to learn for an audition or by my teacher.. For example, I would learn faster the appasionata by Beethoven before I would learn an easier Haydn Sonata..

Depending on what you want to do with piano you're either fine or not fine. If you want to get really good you need to be spending an absolute minimum of 3 hrs practice per day. If you want to be a casual pianist you are doing just fine. Remember that waiting and patience is one of the hardest things a pianist can learn.