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#465060 - 12/01/01 12:14 PM Critical reports in urtext editions
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4111
There are critical reports in the back of some of my Henle books, (Chopin Polonaises specifically) but they are in German! It is hard to translate it using a dictionary or an online translator because it does not come out right, I think you need a grasp of the language. They don't make these in English yet, so does anyone know where I can get a translated version or can anybody translate it? I really want to know what it says, since it is important to be aware of changes in the score.
Also, what is the Study score (Henle)? What is in it that differs from a regular score? I heard there are composer's manuscripts and the like owned by private individuals, how much do these usually go for?

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#465061 - 12/01/01 12:28 PM Re: Critical reports in urtext editions
Rodion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 296
Loc: Salt Lake City
i'm pretty sure the only difference in a study score is that it's smaller, to make it easier to carry around.
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils. - Hector Berlioz

#465062 - 12/01/01 05:16 PM Re: Critical reports in urtext editions
MacDuff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 560
Loc: Southeast, U.S.A.
"Pocket scores" used to be common. People would carry them to recitals and concerts and follow along with the performance.

The prefaces and critical notes in the Vienna Urtext editions are in German and English, by the way. I'm not sure why German nationalism extends to no English critical notes in the Henle editions!

I remember just enough high school and college French to barely amble through musical texts in scores or record jackets. Maybe German would have been more useful for music?

[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: MacDuff ]

#465063 - 12/03/01 03:30 PM Re: Critical reports in urtext editions
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Depending on how long the text is, and your typing skills, you can try one of the on-line translation services.

However please prepare yourself: they are NOT very good, but will definitely get you into the ballpark. Try the Alta Vista babelfish site:

Babelfish translation site

This can also be entertaining... try translating some idiomatic phrase from English to another language, then back again.

"Is too much full Liszt of being itself a serious type-setter? Perhaps Chopin is the musician better. "

This came via French and Italian from: "Is Liszt too full of himself to be considered a serious composer? Perhaps Chopin is the better musician." ;\)

Good luck

#465064 - 12/03/01 03:58 PM Re: Critical reports in urtext editions
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4111
Nina, when I read the translated phrase concerning Liszt, I knew something was wrong right away- not the sentence structure, but that fact that Chopin was a better musician than Liszt, which is ludicrous! I rather be bedazzled by Liszt then have to liszten to salon music! Humor aside, (I like Chopin as much as the next guy) those translators are unreliable, it looks like I need a good German dictionary or a good German buddy who can do it for me! ;\)

[ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: CrashTest ]

#465065 - 12/03/01 05:17 PM Re: Critical reports in urtext editions
ChemicalGrl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 643
Loc: Durham, North Carolina
I understand the translation problem; after all, a lot of the earlier Chemistry literature is in German, and I'm at a loss because I studied French and Russian in college. I know, I should have done German. When I have to translate German papers to English, I have access to a German-English dictionary for Chemists. Couple that with a basic understanding of German sentence structure and I'm able to wade through a German chemistry paper. Perhaps there exists a similar German-English dictionary for musical terms?
Lyn F.

#465066 - 12/03/01 10:30 PM Re: Critical reports in urtext editions
Brendan Offline

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5506
Loc: McAllen, TX
Originally posted by CrashTest:
it looks like I need a good German dictionary or a good German buddy who can do it for me! ;\)

I speak fluent German.


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