Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Why is the fourth finger the weakest?

Is this for anatomical reasons or in terms of the normaln "workout" it gets playing music or...?

Thanks

thats' what i m trying to find out and hope to find solutions to it man!!!

and also the extensor and flexor of 4th finger are wrapped around the 3rd, thay why it can never be totally independent of 3rd finger.

someone correct me if i m wrong.

It is just how the hand is made. The 4th finger will never be independent of the 3rd and 5th fingers. Just look at Schumann to see the dangers of trying to make it work like all the other fingers! This is why it is important to choose your fingering wisely in pieces so that it accounts for this being so weak.

The question is not why but what to do about it.

I think one can improve the strength/independence of the fourth finger but not make it equal to the others. I think some of Chopin's and Schnabel's fingerings are chosen because it is a given that some fingers are stronger than others even in pianists with the best technique.

So far some people have given reasons why the fourth finger cannot be independent of some other fingers. Is that the same thing as saying it's not as strong?

It's weighed down by the extra attachments - rather like a dog on a chain.

The Hanon exercises (in the first section of the book)are good at exercising all 5 fingers and have stood the test of time. Be sure to lift your fingers high as it says in the instructions.

Chopin Op.10 #2 springs to mind immediately (at least for the RH).

Oh shite!?

Chris G: how does one lift the 4th finger high? The only way is to lift the 5th finger with it, which is undesirable. You must understand the physiology of the hand and work within its limits, not try to make up your own.

well you can stretch the 4th finger straight out and play the note. and have a good tone.

Look up hand on wikipedia. You'll see a picture of the tendons on the back of the hands somewhere. It'll become apparent that the 2nd and 5th fingers are not really restricted, but 3rd pulls 2nd up together with it when it comes up (your hand can overcomes this by letting the tendons move closer). Fourth is special because when 4th comes up, it pulls on the tendons of the 3rd and 5th fingers, which is a problem because the 4th tendon can't split into 2 or anything

I just pull on my 4th finger all the time, and it gets somewhat stronger I also like to grab stuff with it instead of index finger.

Very interesting. Is there some clear reason why the hand is built this way or is it just the way it worked out?

As stated by others here, the fourth finger is weaker than the others for anatomical reasons BUT it must be made to be as independent and powerful as possible and I would recommend one's goal be to make it AS independent and powerful as any of your other fingers - in other words work as though it is possible.

With slow, gradual practice one can develop the ability to lift the fourth independently. I have been finding out recently, as part of my "challenge everything you've been taught and everything you've been taught to fear" exploration of technique, that lifting the finger reasonably high (I keep it curved) is a fantastic way to develop its power and independence. You will be told that this will only lead to injury, but I suspect that is an overreaction to a whole lot of pianists going overboard in their practicing, whether in quantity or quality. Just use common sense moderation in how high you lift your fingers and how much you practice, and learn to relax muscles that don't need to be engaged. KK - I am aware of your admonition, based on Ortman, that when striking the key from any height the finger is slowed at contact, but I have never understood why that matters - I would think that that slowing would be quite miniscule and more than made up for by the additional momentum of the finger before contact, not to mention their increased power developed by practicing in this manner, but I don't wish to get in an argument over it - comment as you wish and I'll leave you with the last word. At any rate, one practices lifting the fingers to develop their independence and power. One can PLAY from the surface or from a distance above the keys, it all depends on the sound one wishes to achieve.

My teacher recently told me to work Hanon #45 to help fingers #4 and #5

Strength of grip, think of the evolutionary purpose of the hand...what use did independant fingers have thousands of years ago?

Ortmann (and Schultz's) point is that you lose control not power. The concentration you've put into the 'tone' is all lost once the key travels faster than your finger. All that's left is about millimeter where you are back in control of the key before the escapement.

On the raising the fingers high - if you are experienced, and I include learned, you can do what you want. I've been working on playing Bach with a hand that looks (and feels) like a fist. I got close to giving myself tennis elbow and I have tension all down both sides but I know exactly what I'm doing and though close, will not damage myself. It's the freedom of someone who has been active in the technique field for over 10 years. I would never alllow my students to 'experiment' like this unless I felt sure they can play with zero tension first. As I've said before - you can always add tension, you can't take it away. By the way, playing with extreme flexion really builds muscles, as does extreme extension (black note etude).

All that said, even I wouldn't crash a finger into the key, that's asking for trouble. Damage could happen on any single strike as it did to Paderewski. Our fingers evolved to grasp which presupposes contact first.

Regarding lifting the fourth finger high everyone's hand is different and if you find this uncomfortable or painful you shouldn't do it without seeking sound medical advice. I may be lucky in that my 4th finger does not seem particularly weak compared to the rest of my fingers and has pretty good independent motion. I still feel that Hanon is helpful for giving a good workout to all 5 fingers but as with any exercise you should not overdo it if you feel any kind of discomfort.

Why do you think that is undesirable. If the fifth finger is not playing at the time (holding a high note as happens often in polyphony) why go to the effort of keeping it down? To bring up one of our hobby horses, the Taubman technique teaches that the fifth should be lifted with the fourth in those situations. (This is a specific application of a more general approach.)

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