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#471182 - 04/28/05 06:14 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Rhymes with "clove" and "stove."
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#471183 - 04/28/05 06:21 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Ðanor Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1232
Loc: Santiago, Chile
Shostakovich: Shut-tha-car-b*tch

Rubinstein: Ruby-stay-in

Ligeti: Lee-gay-tea

Ashkenazy: Ash-can-i-see
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ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss

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#471184 - 04/28/05 06:50 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
No, Ove does not rhyme with clove and stove, the "E" at the end is clearly pronounced. The "D" in Andsnes is silent.
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#471185 - 04/28/05 06:54 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Eins Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 748
Loc: Utah
Achtung! Bach and Rachmaninov have the same 'ch'. Try to breathe out through your mouth and tighten the throat with your rear tongue. The low pitch hissing sound you should get is 'ch'
If you tighten with the forward part of your tongue, you get more of a 'sh' which comes close to the 'ch' in Richter.

To clarify the rules, if 'ch' is following an i or an e like in bEtter, the hiss is higher pitched (middle part of tongue closing), now much more like 'sh'. 'ch' following a, o, or u has the rear end of the tongue tightening.

Try say 'ee' like in eek, and from that ee add a hiss following above instructions (middle tongue). That gives you RiCHter.

Say 'ah' like in bAjA California, then tighten the throat to get the 'ch' of Bach and Rachmaninov.

Ach lass mich doch Klavier spielen \:D
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#471186 - 04/28/05 06:54 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Schumann Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Bloomington, IN
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:
I have been in America for almost 30 years, and I STILL haven't heard Bach pronounced correctly. It's prounounced like Nacht, Wacht, (without the "T" of course). Seems to be a very difficult sound to make for americans.[/b]
That's funny -- everybody I know makes a point of
pronouncing "Bach" with their best German accent.
Had a Taiwanese professor who couldn't quite get there (he said "Baja"), but the Americans don't seem to have any trouble producing the "ach" sound.

Admittedly, we tend to choke on the "r"s in "Verdi" and "Fauré", but maybe that's for the best. Listen to an interview with any American soprano and tell me that she doesn't sound like even more of a ninny for pronouncing these names CORRECTLY! Switching accents midsentence is so jarring that it tends to sound like an affectation.

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#471187 - 04/28/05 07:02 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
Not if you do it right.
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#471188 - 04/28/05 07:12 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Schumann Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Bloomington, IN
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:
Not if you do it right. [/b]
I really disagree! \:\)

When I'm listening to a sentence, all of which is being pronounced in some sort of midwestern accent, with the flat vowels and the motorcycle-engine American "r"s... and then suddenly the name "Schubert" is pronounced with a beautiful, correct, perfect Austrian accent, it makes my skin crawl! The sudden switch back (and forth -- it's not like the conversation is going to proceed in German) is just too startling.

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#471189 - 04/28/05 07:20 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
Well, you have to remember that we Europeans are usually trained in 3 to 6 languages, and it comes naturally to us to pronounce names like they are pronounced in their native land. I'm sorry if I may make your skin crawl, but that's the way it is.
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#471190 - 04/28/05 08:13 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Schumann Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Bloomington, IN
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:
Well, you have to remember that we Europeans are usually trained in 3 to 6 languages, and it comes naturally to us to pronounce names like they are pronounced in their native land. I'm sorry if I may make your skin crawl, but that's the way it is. [/b]
I don't mean to offend!

A conciliatory explanation might be that it is only American English that sounds pretentious when sprinkled with proper-names-in-their-native-accents. We can confirm this theory as soon as we find an Italian who says "Ravel" without rolling the "R" two or three times...

Or who calls "Paris" "Paris". \:\)

And in all fairness, hyper-enunciation is not always snobbery. Sometimes in New York, for instance, you'll find a waitress who has been coached on the correct pronunciation of "marinara" or some such, and who will therefore deliver her whole spiel with a Long Island twang, except for that one shocking, startling word...

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#471191 - 04/28/05 08:15 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Oy, yes. That's très bizarre. I hate it when people mix languages and accents.
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#471192 - 04/28/05 08:29 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
Thank you, Schumann, no offense taken. You do actually have a good point. But remember, I speak with an accent all the time.....
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#471193 - 04/28/05 11:09 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
gregjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 316
Loc: CA
Shostakovich: Shost-uh-KOE-vitch

Chopin: Show-pahn (with French 'n' sound -- just let your voice float over that 'n' sound, if that makes any sense)
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#471194 - 04/29/05 05:50 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jpw101 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 631
Loc: UK

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#471195 - 04/29/05 05:50 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
sandman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 605
Loc: toronto
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:

And in all fairness, hyper-enunciation is not always snobbery. Sometimes in New York, for instance, you'll find a waitress who has been coached on the correct pronunciation of "marinara" or some such, and who will therefore deliver her whole spiel with a Long Island twang, except for that one shocking, startling word... [/b]
I always smile when watching Jeopardy, and Alex Trebec busts out some crazy foreign accent on some really impressive sounding words!! \:\)

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#471196 - 04/29/05 06:00 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3553
Loc: not in Japan anymore
I started piano after coming to Japan, and thus have learned a lot of composers' names, as well as musical terms etc, first in Japanese (or with Japanese pronunciation) and then later tried to figure out what the English is. And to make it even more confusing, music-talk in Japanese is sprinkled with random German and Italian words (pronounced with Japanese rules) along with the Japanese words. I hate to think of trying to have a conversation in U.S. with other pianists. When we talk music, my mom laughs at me all the time as it is...
_________________________
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#471197 - 04/29/05 06:07 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
miseenplace Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Minnesota
How do you pronounce Kysylyczyn?
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Kuan

Say meez-ahn-plaz

All Hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!

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#471198 - 04/29/05 07:05 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
Hi,
being Italian and knowing a bit of German I can provide you with the correct Italian and German pronounciation:

Scherzo = skertzo (where the e is like the e in "bEst" and the last o must be o like in "dOOr" not ou)
Richter = Richter (with the ch like in BaCH)
Bach = Bach (with the ch like in iCH, more like a k followed by an h like in "Have")
Appassionata = Appassionata (sorry no better way to write it down, just be careful with pp and ss, they must sound as double p and double s [means longer]. Another hint, all the a should be pronounced like the u in lUck not ae)
Chopin - Sho-pan
von Weber - fon vaeber
Liszt - List
Schubert - Shoo-Burt
Schumann - Shoo-man (use the same a like the one in AppAssionAtA)
Tchaikovsky - Chai-Couv-ski
Rachmaninov - Rack-man-in-off (again the same a)
Shostakovich - Shostakovic (same a as before and the last c sounds like ch in "CHoice")

I can add also:
piano = piano (the a is like the one in AppAssionAtA)
forte = forte (the r is a ringing r and the last e is like the e in "bEst")
fortissimo (the i is like the one in lIst and the last o like "dOOr")
minuetto (again same i, e and o)
allegro (you bet, same a, e and o)

Now you know the trick: in Italian
a is always like u in lUck
e is always like e in bEst
i is always like i in lIst
o is always like o in dOOR
u is always like o in cOOl

double letter should sound like double (longer) sounds of the single one.

Hope it helps

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#471199 - 04/29/05 07:13 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
Very good, Sviatoslav, very good. Just a few minor corrections: The Rach... in Rachmaninov is pronounced like Bach, not Rack.... And Schubert is ScuBERT, not BURT. Like in Bertolucci.
The A in Italian is like U in LUCK????? I thought it was A like in Amore. Then again, non parlo italiano.
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#471200 - 04/29/05 07:19 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
u in luck and a in amore are pronounced the same way, isn't it?

you are right about Rachmaninov and Shubert. I just left them as Rack-man-in-off and Shoo-Burt
because I frequently hear Americans pronounce ck like ch in German and burt is a u that resembles the u in "hurt".

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#471201 - 04/29/05 09:43 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
 Quote:
Gyorgy Cziffra: "Your-gay Chiffruh"
LOL....childish I know. [/b]
Yeah, you have to put the accent on the right syllable.

"YOUR-gay CHIFF-ruh", not "you're-GAY, Cziffra". [/b]
If I recall correctly, he had his name legally changed to the French equivalent "Georges," which is a lot less difficult to pronounce. It's just the English pronunciation, except with a soft "G," and for the love of God, don't say the "s."

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#471202 - 04/29/05 10:02 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sviatoslav:
[QB] u in luck and a in amore are pronounced the same way, isn't it?

Not here in Los Angeles. It' more like a in a in adorable.
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#471203 - 04/29/05 11:33 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
how do you say "Richard Strauss"? i heard Richard is pronounced as "ri-card", is that the way to say it?

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#471204 - 04/29/05 11:49 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
The "ich" in Richard is pronounced the same way as the German pronoun "ICH".
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#471205 - 04/29/05 11:58 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Rick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Chicago
Per Sviatoslav:

 Quote:
Scherzo = skertzo (where the e is like the e in "bEst"
What do you mean here? You're taking away the "r"? Sounds like you want "sket-so". I think it should be "scaret-so". You also said:

 Quote:
forte = forte (the r is a ringing r and the last e is like the e in "bEst")
I've never heard anyone pronounce it this way. I hear the most musically intelligent pronounce it as "for-tay". As an aside, I can't think of any word at all that ends with the e-sound from "best". Are you "best"-happy? You're big on "best" aren't you? \:\) Just wondering.

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#471206 - 04/29/05 12:09 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick:
[ I hear the most musically intelligent pronounce it as "for-tay".

Musical intelligence has nothing to do with pronunciation. Quite frankly, I wish I had more of the first and less of the latter.
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#471207 - 04/29/05 01:43 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
miseenplace Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Minnesota
So people, how do you pronounce Kysylyczyn?
_________________________
Kuan

Say meez-ahn-plaz

All Hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!

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#471208 - 04/29/05 02:01 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
John Rusnak Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 18
 Quote:
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
Scherzo = Sker - tzo
[/b]
I always pronounce it Skair-tzo. Wrong? [/b]
You're right..
if I'm right.

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#471209 - 04/29/05 02:43 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1500
Loc: Encino, California
 Quote:
Originally posted by miseenplace:
So people, how do you pronounce Kysylyczyn? [/b]
Exactly like it's written \:D
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#471210 - 04/29/05 02:58 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
TS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Canada
hmmm...heres my guess "K-eye-s-eye-l-eye-tchine"

When "y" is acting as a vowel, it usually makes an "eye" sound, right??

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#471211 - 04/29/05 04:47 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3553
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Well, this just confirms it. I am never talking about these things again, I will only address these topics in writing! Too dangerous otherwise.
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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