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#471212 - 04/29/05 05:38 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
minorkeyed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 108
Loc: US
Schumann is pronounced with a soft a: SHOO[/b]-mahn.

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#471213 - 04/29/05 05:56 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Mussorgsky "always pronounced his name Mussorgsky, with the accent on the first syllable. Nobody ever listened to him, and today we all pronounce it Mussorgsky, which sounds right to us."

-- David Barber
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#471214 - 04/29/05 06:48 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
miseenplace Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Minnesota
 Quote:
Originally posted by TS:
hmmm...heres my guess "K-eye-s-eye-l-eye-tchine"

When "y" is acting as a vowel, it usually makes an "eye" sound, right?? [/b]
Dunno, we all know how to pronounce Krzyzewski because he's famous. But Kysylyczyn? Someone gimme a link to a pronunciation guide. Is that a Polish name?
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Say meez-ahn-plaz

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#471215 - 04/30/05 06:48 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jpw101 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 631
Loc: UK
 Quote:
Originally posted by miseenplace:
So people, how do you pronounce Kysylyczyn? [/b]
Kiss-ill-itch-in.

http://www.krykiet.com/polish_pronunciation.htm

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#471216 - 04/30/05 08:45 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
 Quote:
Originally posted by sandman:
Rzewski - Zevski [/b]
In polish the rz is pronounced (somehow) as a single syllable with both the R and the Z present, but the Z is closer to the "zjuh" sound like in Dr. Zhivago.

So its something like rjev-ski, emphasis on the first syllable. Think of the r-sound as a grace note to the 'zjuh'.

Interestingly, the one I hear constantly mispronounced is Lutoslawski. If you see it written in Polish, the second 'l' has a line through it. This is distinct from the 'l' without a line through it, and sounds like the 'w' in English. And of course the polish 'w' sounds like 'v'.

So its Lu-to-swav-ski.
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#471217 - 04/30/05 08:48 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
 Quote:
Originally posted by miseenplace:
So people, how do you pronounce Kysylyczyn? [/b]
I would say Kih-sihl-ich-in. Just a guess.
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#471218 - 04/30/05 09:00 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
miseenplace Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Minnesota
Ooh thank you folks. Speaking of Polish, is it Wanda Landowski or Landowska?
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Kuan

Say meez-ahn-plaz

All Hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!

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#471219 - 04/30/05 10:29 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
Landowska, I believe.

Many (most?) Polish surnames take a different ending for women than men.

Same with Russian. Vladimir Putin's wife is Ludmila Putina, for example.
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#471220 - 04/30/05 07:48 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ishldbpracticing88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 103
Loc: SC
What about "vivace"?
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#471221 - 04/30/05 10:57 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
vivace = viv-ach-ae (CH as in CHair)
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#471222 - 05/02/05 12:28 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
>> Not here in Los Angeles. It' more like a in a in adorable.

:-), textual description of pronounciation is really hard, I just realized it. So, vowels in italian have got only one pronounciation; if the first a in adorable it sounds like the a in math or bath, fine. And it's the same a we use in appassionata and in all other words.

>> vivace = viv-ach-ae (CH as in CHair)

Correct, provided that the i i pronounced like ee in teen. Be careful about the final e; it should sound like the a in bag or the e in self (they should have a very similar sound in English). Nothing more, don't add any additional sound. If you say something that resembles to ay it's something that in Italian sounds ... like an American trying to speak Italian :-D.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Rick:
Per Sviatoslav:

 Quote:
Scherzo = skertzo (where the e is like the e in "bEst"
What do you mean here? You're taking away the "r"? Sounds like you want "sket-so". I think it should be "scaret-so". You also said:

But, I didn't remove the r?!
I'll try differently: s-k-e-r-ts-o
where e is like a in bag
r is ringing
o is like the o in gold
And don't add anything alse. In Italian you are not allowed to add something that is not explicitly written; there is a perfect (with some few, very few, exceptions) match between what is written and how it is pronounced.

 Quote:
forte = forte (the r is a ringing r and the last e is like the e in "bEst")
I've never heard anyone pronounce it this way. I hear the most musically intelligent pronounce it as "for-tay". As an aside, I can't think of any word at all that ends with the e-sound from "best". Are you "best"-happy? You're big on "best" aren't you? \:\) Just wondering. [/b]
Again, let me try again differently:
f-o-r-t-e
O like o in gold
r is ringing
e is like a in bag or e in self
I have to say it again because this is a recurring mistake: "ay" at the end of Italian words ending with "e" is ALWAYS wrong. I'm sorry for the "musical intelligents" but it's definetely not the right one. Again that "y" is something that produces a sound of an "ee" (like in teen) to an Italian ear; it's not written explicitly, so it must not be there.
It's like if I pronounce in English bag like bayg; is it right? I don't think so :-D.

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#471223 - 05/03/05 07:08 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
devils4ever Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 477
Loc: northwest NJ
Okay, how do you pronounce "Pathetique"?
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#471224 - 05/03/05 07:30 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by devils4ever:
Okay, how do you pronounce "Pathetique"? [/b]
It depends: "Pathetique" is French while "Patetica" is Italian. The two pronouncitaions are not very different:
pathetique = p-a-t-e-t-i-c
using the a and e explained above (like in Italian) and be careful to the t, that sound is not like the English th in thunder but is just a t like in tempest. Here the accent is on the i; be careful, usually English speaking people put the accent on the e. In French it must be on the i.

patetica = p-a-t-e-i-c-a
Same as before but you have to add an a at the end (an Italian a :-) ). Here the accent goes on the e.

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#471225 - 05/03/05 07:43 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
so, 'th' in Pathetique doesn't sound like 'th' but 't'? it's the 1st time i heard that.

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#471226 - 05/03/05 08:28 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18131
Loc: Victoria, BC
Yes, if you pronounce Pathétique as "pathetic," that woud be pathetic!! \:D

It should be pronounced: pa - tay - teek, with the accent on the last syllable.
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#471227 - 05/03/05 09:28 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by Sviatoslav:
 Quote:
Originally posted by devils4ever:
Okay, how do you pronounce "Pathetique"? [/b]
patetica = p-a-t-e-i-c-a
Same as before but you have to add an a at the end (an Italian a :-) ). Here the accent goes on the e. [/b]
ooops, just forgot a t
p-a-t-e-t-i-c-a

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#471228 - 05/03/05 09:31 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
The French pronunciation would be pah-tey-teek[/b].

To go off on a tangent, I just found last week that Abbado is pronounced ah-BAH-doh[/b] (as opposed to AH-bah-doh). News to me.

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#471229 - 05/03/05 09:54 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
The French pronunciation would be pah-tey-teek[/b].

To go off on a tangent, I just found last week that Abbado is pronounced ah-BAH-doh[/b] (as opposed to AH-bah-doh). News to me. [/b]
If a capital B means double b and a capital A means that the accent falls there, you are completely right.

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#471230 - 05/03/05 11:37 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Rick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Chicago
Alright Sviatoslav, I'll concede on the forte. I'll take your word on that, since it certainly sounds feasible or reasonable. But there's no way I'm gonna give you "scherzo". It's hard for me to see how you get a short a (as in bag) out of scherzo. I think the misunderstanding stems from these sounds that are combinations of a vowel followed by a consonant. At least in some of these combos (as in the English "er" as in Hertz), the new sound is another wholly independent vowel sound. This "new" vowel sound is totally "steady state" in that if you pronounce it and hold that sound for awhile, the sound is the same at the beginning as near the end (unless you have a bad voice or bad lungs). With that in mind (and assuming that is true), it's not really relevant or appropriate to say that the "er" in Hertz is made up of a separate vowel sound and a separate consonant. It's a new, wholly independent vowel sound (in English anyway) that we spell as "er". You may agree with that, yet you could still be right about "scherzo". Because I will concede that some combinations of vowels and consonants (beginnining with a vowel) such as "are" in "scare" may not be "steady state". Yet they are not simple sequential combinations of a vowel and a consonant either. Most people probably pronounce the last half of "scare" as "err", with almost no remnant of the "long a" sound remaining. So I guess I'd still like to know, after all this rambling, do you hear a "are" (as in scare) when you say "scherzo"? Or is it something else entirely?

Rick

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#471231 - 05/03/05 01:38 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Schumann Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Bloomington, IN
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rick:
do you hear a "are" (as in scare) when you say "scherzo"? Or is it something else entirely? [/b]
It's the same sound as the "er" in "concerto", whether you're speaking English or Italian.

But it is not at all the same sound in English as it is in Italian. \:\)

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#471232 - 05/04/05 02:48 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
t kachu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 82
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:
I have been in America for almost 30 years, and I STILL haven't heard Bach pronounced correctly. It's prounounced like Nacht, Wacht, (without the "T" of course). [/b]
It might be because this sound is not prevailent in the english language and just sounds wierd coming out of an english speakers mouth.
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#471233 - 05/04/05 02:56 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
t kachu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 82
Chopin is pronounced

show pah -you cut off the n sound a lot

Georges is pronounced

jurj -like splurge with a J

Scherzo is pronounced

skaird/t zo

appassionata is pronounced

passion with ah at the beginning and ahtah at the end

mein ami come les spices
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#471234 - 05/04/05 10:14 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by t kachu:
Chopin is pronounced

show pah -you cut off the n sound a lot

Georges is pronounced

jurj -like splurge with a J

Scherzo is pronounced

skaird/t zo

appassionata is pronounced

passion with ah at the beginning and ahtah at the end

mein ami come les spices [/b]
It looks like that scherzo is pretty challenging here.
skaird/t zo - I don't know how to get it. I don't know how you intend AI to be pronounced but if it's a sequence of an a like in math and an i like the ee in teen, sorry but it not the right pronounciation.

I realize that we could go on for ever in this thread because the rendereing in writings of an actual pronounciation is always biased by different languages, accents, and inflections. So, could you please tell me if there is a simple way to upload somewhere a short audio file?
I can provide all of the Italian, French, and German words you may dream of.

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#471235 - 05/04/05 02:01 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
ok, how do you pronounce (German i suppose):

'Les Adieux'
'Grosse Fuge'
'Archduke'
'Favori (Andande Fovori)'

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#471236 - 05/04/05 02:05 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
TS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Canada
"Lé A-doo" I believe. With that french sounding "oo".

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#471237 - 05/04/05 02:27 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:
ok, how do you pronounce (German i suppose):

'Les Adieux'
'Grosse Fuge'
'Archduke'
'Favori (Andande Fovori)' [/b]
Les adieux is French and the most challenging is the sound of eux. I don't know how to describe it in writings, :-) sorry. I don't even know if this sound exists in English.

Andante Favori is Italian and you can follow the guidelines above.

All of the rest is German.

Let me reiterate; any place where to upload examples?

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#471238 - 05/04/05 03:11 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
i guess that you could make a sound clip and upload to this forum (as those recordings posted here), and there is probably some instruction about uploading somewhere on this forum. i haven't done that here, so cannot say how.

btw, does 'eux' sound similar to 'u' or 'u-oo'?

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#471239 - 05/04/05 03:20 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Yes it does. But it has that odd unique French sound.

Also, I've been told that in French, there is a specific way to pronounce "te" - as in "Le Morte." you do not necessarily pronounce the "e" but at the same time you do not entirely drop it. The sound comes at the end of the "t" very slightly - almost as if you put extra accent on the "t". Can any French speakers varify/correct this?
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#471240 - 05/04/05 04:21 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
lay-za-dyeuh[/b] is the closest I can get.

"Eux" does NOT sound like "u."

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#471241 - 05/04/05 07:58 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
CCM Stephen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 461
Loc: Savannah GA
put your mouth into the position that you would normally say "oo" but instead say "yeah" and that will sound pretty close

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