Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
70 registered (barbaram, AndyP, angga888, Beemer, 21 invisible), 1179 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#471152 - 04/28/05 11:51 AM The Pronunciations Thread
TS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Canada
Im always embarrassing myself in front of my teacher, when I try to pronounce musical names or terms, so I thought it would make a good thread to sort out all the pronunciations of various musical terms and names that you are curious about.

To start off here are some I dont know:

Scherzo (is it Skertso or sherzo)
Richter (same sort of thing, is it Rishter, or Rickter)
Cziffra (ziffra?)
Appassionata (Appassion-yata?? sort of spanish-like?)


I remember a couple years ago when I first started to play Chopin and I pronounced it exactly how it is spelt (Chop - in) and I didn't understand why my teacher was laughing at me, and now I realize that I wouldve reacted the same way. \:D

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#471153 - 04/28/05 12:02 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
As always, I could be wrong. But here's how I pronounce these:


Scherzo: "Skertso"

Sviatoslav Richter: "Shvee-ah-toe-slauv Rickter"

Gyorgy Cziffra: "Your-gay Chiffruh"

Appassionata: either "Uh-pashin-ahtuh" or "A-pashee-own-ah-tuh"
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471154 - 04/28/05 12:04 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18287
Loc: Victoria, BC
Scherzo = Sker - tzo
Richter = Rick - ter, but with a soft ck, as in the German pronoun "Ich"
Cziffra = Tchee - fra (or Tchi - fra : i as in "if")
Appassionata - Ap - pas - sion - a - ta, no Spanish 'nya' sound
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#471155 - 04/28/05 12:53 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Forza2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 38
I thought scherzo was "sherzo"?
Chopin is "shopang" right?
And I have this weird thing with saying "beat"hoven even though i know that not right :p

Top
#471156 - 04/28/05 12:57 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Rumi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/29/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Montreal
How about Dvorak??
_________________________
"You! Play the piani!" (plays fur elise)... "That's pian-o! I said pian-i!"

Top
#471157 - 04/28/05 01:18 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
sandman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 605
Loc: toronto
Dvorak -- devorzhack

a couple more - at least how i learned them from my teacher

Gilels - Gillez
Czerny - Churney
Horowitz - Horovitz
Rzewski - Zevski

Top
#471158 - 04/28/05 01:19 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Show-Pan.

Dvorjsh-ahk

 Quote:
Gyorgy Cziffra: "Your-gay Chiffruh"
LOL....childish I know.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

Top
#471159 - 04/28/05 01:27 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Gilels - Gillez
[/QB][/QUOTE]

Do you mean Gillelz?

Or is the last 'l' silent?

And his first name: "Eh-mill" or "Eh-meel"?
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471160 - 04/28/05 01:29 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
 Quote:
Gyorgy Cziffra: "Your-gay Chiffruh"
LOL....childish I know. [/b]
Yeah, you have to put the accent on the right syllable.

"YOUR-gay CHIFF-ruh", not "you're-GAY, Cziffra".
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471161 - 04/28/05 01:37 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Mr. E Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 426
I mispronounced Liszt at first, I would say "Least" instead of "List".

Top
#471162 - 04/28/05 01:41 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
TS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Canada
Yeah that was another one I was wondering about. So it is "List" then. I usually say "least" too...

Top
#471163 - 04/28/05 02:21 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
It's "List".

"Horovitz" is one pronounciation. In English, however, it is pronounced "Horwitz". I'm not sure which he preferred, anyone know?

Saint-Saens is one I had trouble with at first. I read it and though it was "Saint-Say-ens"... Now I know better.
_________________________
- Zack -

Top
#471164 - 04/28/05 02:22 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by C.V. Alkan:
It's "List".

"Horovitz" is one pronounciation. In English, however, it is pronounced "Horwitz". I'm not sure which he preferred, anyone know?

Saint-Saens is one I had trouble with at first. I read it and thought it was "Saint-Say-ens"... Now I know better. [/b]
_________________________
- Zack -

Top
#471165 - 04/28/05 02:31 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
how about Bach? i heard many pronounce it as "Bark".

Top
#471166 - 04/28/05 02:50 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Duo Secundus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 50
Loc: USA
Victor Borge, in saying the name "Bach" always coughs at the end. ;\)

Pronouncing Saint-Saëns reminds me of the beginning of "Carnival of the Animals" by Ogden Nash:

Camille Saint-Saens
was racked with pains
When people addressed him
as "Saint Sanes."
He held the human race to blame
Because it could not pronounce his name.
So he turned with metronome and fife
To glorify other forms of life.
Be quiet please -- for here begins
His salute to feathers, fur, and fins.


pd

Top
#471167 - 04/28/05 02:51 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
I have been in America for almost 30 years, and I STILL haven't heard Bach pronounced correctly. It's prounounced like Nacht, Wacht, (without the "T" of course). Seems to be a very difficult sound to make for americans. Did you also know that the "v" in Beethoven is pronounced "f"?
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471168 - 04/28/05 02:56 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
what's exact "cht" pronounced?

i actually can say Bach correctly, and i say it like "Bar-h(er)" without saying "er" much and "h" is on heavier side. i once asked a friend about it and he knew a little German.

Top
#471169 - 04/28/05 03:00 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
Cht as in Nacht and Wacht sounds kind of like Nahrt and Wahrt with a VERY guttural R. Not the soft English R.
ACHTUNG!!!
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471170 - 04/28/05 03:08 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Forza2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 38
Bach would be pronounced as in BACHtung :p

Top
#471171 - 04/28/05 03:09 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
Yes. Now let me hear you say it!
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471172 - 04/28/05 03:23 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
DaWF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 233
Loc: Wisconsin
Hum..
Chopin - Sho-pahn
von Weber - fon vaeber
Liszt - List (or Flizt ^_^)
Schubert - Shoo-Burt
Schumann - Shoo-man
Tchaikovsky - Chai-Cough-ski(?)
Rachmaninov - Rock-mahn(As in jamaican hey man)-in-off
Shostakovich - ...pass


Correct me if I'm wrong. I *am* American after all, which by the standards of many snooty europeans I've met, means I'm musically ignorant.

Top
#471173 - 04/28/05 03:29 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
Yes, you're wrong in several places. But that does not mean that you are musically ignorant, just a bit "linguistically challenged". Nothing wrong with that. I still have problems with the word "refridgerator".
According to the marvellous pianist Leif Ove Andsnes, there is much more snobbery in American music society than in Europe.
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471174 - 04/28/05 03:37 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Hepcat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 254
How do you pronounce feux follets?

Top
#471175 - 04/28/05 04:33 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
"feux" rhymes with "look" (with out the 'k')

"follets" - "foe-lay"


Shostakovich: "Shah-stuh-co-vich"

I once heard someone pronounce it as "Shus-TAH-koh-vich" !!!!

(He meant it as a joke, of course.)
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471176 - 04/28/05 04:44 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
iamcanadian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1893
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
Scherzo = Sker - tzo
[/b]
I always pronounce it Skair-tzo. Wrong?
_________________________
♪♫♪♫

Top
#471177 - 04/28/05 04:48 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
I say both sometimes.


Here's some more:

Pianojerome: "Pee-ann-oh Jeh-rome"
Iamcanadian: "Eye-am-Cuh-nay-dee-in"
Hepcat: "Hep-cat"
DaWF: "Duh-Dubya-Ef"
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471178 - 04/28/05 05:34 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18287
Loc: Victoria, BC
No, iamcanadian; your pronunciation is correct; I just transliterated it inaccurately. The first syllable is pronounced as "scare"

This is where we need to be able to use the IPA. Of course, everyone would have to know the IPA for it to be any good, but these approximations of sounds by the use of the English alhpabet is somewhat approximate, at best.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#471179 - 04/28/05 05:54 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
since someone mentioned, how do you say: Leif Ove Andsnes ("lef-oh-v-anderson")? he's going to play Rach 1 next month in Cleveland.

Top
#471180 - 04/28/05 06:00 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Layf Ove Onds-nez.
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471181 - 04/28/05 06:06 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
how do you say "Ove" then?

Top
#471182 - 04/28/05 06:14 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Rhymes with "clove" and "stove."
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471183 - 04/28/05 06:21 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Ðanor Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1232
Loc: Santiago, Chile
Shostakovich: Shut-tha-car-b*tch

Rubinstein: Ruby-stay-in

Ligeti: Lee-gay-tea

Ashkenazy: Ash-can-i-see
_________________________
ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss

Top
#471184 - 04/28/05 06:50 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
No, Ove does not rhyme with clove and stove, the "E" at the end is clearly pronounced. The "D" in Andsnes is silent.
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471185 - 04/28/05 06:54 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Eins Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 748
Loc: Utah
Achtung! Bach and Rachmaninov have the same 'ch'. Try to breathe out through your mouth and tighten the throat with your rear tongue. The low pitch hissing sound you should get is 'ch'
If you tighten with the forward part of your tongue, you get more of a 'sh' which comes close to the 'ch' in Richter.

To clarify the rules, if 'ch' is following an i or an e like in bEtter, the hiss is higher pitched (middle part of tongue closing), now much more like 'sh'. 'ch' following a, o, or u has the rear end of the tongue tightening.

Try say 'ee' like in eek, and from that ee add a hiss following above instructions (middle tongue). That gives you RiCHter.

Say 'ah' like in bAjA California, then tighten the throat to get the 'ch' of Bach and Rachmaninov.

Ach lass mich doch Klavier spielen \:D
_________________________
One of the funny things about the stock market is that every time one person buys, another sells, and both think they are astute.
-William Feather

Top
#471186 - 04/28/05 06:54 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Schumann Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Bloomington, IN
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:
I have been in America for almost 30 years, and I STILL haven't heard Bach pronounced correctly. It's prounounced like Nacht, Wacht, (without the "T" of course). Seems to be a very difficult sound to make for americans.[/b]
That's funny -- everybody I know makes a point of
pronouncing "Bach" with their best German accent.
Had a Taiwanese professor who couldn't quite get there (he said "Baja"), but the Americans don't seem to have any trouble producing the "ach" sound.

Admittedly, we tend to choke on the "r"s in "Verdi" and "Fauré", but maybe that's for the best. Listen to an interview with any American soprano and tell me that she doesn't sound like even more of a ninny for pronouncing these names CORRECTLY! Switching accents midsentence is so jarring that it tends to sound like an affectation.

Top
#471187 - 04/28/05 07:02 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
Not if you do it right.
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471188 - 04/28/05 07:12 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Schumann Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Bloomington, IN
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:
Not if you do it right. [/b]
I really disagree! \:\)

When I'm listening to a sentence, all of which is being pronounced in some sort of midwestern accent, with the flat vowels and the motorcycle-engine American "r"s... and then suddenly the name "Schubert" is pronounced with a beautiful, correct, perfect Austrian accent, it makes my skin crawl! The sudden switch back (and forth -- it's not like the conversation is going to proceed in German) is just too startling.

Top
#471189 - 04/28/05 07:20 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
Well, you have to remember that we Europeans are usually trained in 3 to 6 languages, and it comes naturally to us to pronounce names like they are pronounced in their native land. I'm sorry if I may make your skin crawl, but that's the way it is.
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471190 - 04/28/05 08:13 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Schumann Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Bloomington, IN
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:
Well, you have to remember that we Europeans are usually trained in 3 to 6 languages, and it comes naturally to us to pronounce names like they are pronounced in their native land. I'm sorry if I may make your skin crawl, but that's the way it is. [/b]
I don't mean to offend!

A conciliatory explanation might be that it is only American English that sounds pretentious when sprinkled with proper-names-in-their-native-accents. We can confirm this theory as soon as we find an Italian who says "Ravel" without rolling the "R" two or three times...

Or who calls "Paris" "Paris". \:\)

And in all fairness, hyper-enunciation is not always snobbery. Sometimes in New York, for instance, you'll find a waitress who has been coached on the correct pronunciation of "marinara" or some such, and who will therefore deliver her whole spiel with a Long Island twang, except for that one shocking, startling word...

Top
#471191 - 04/28/05 08:15 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Oy, yes. That's très bizarre. I hate it when people mix languages and accents.
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471192 - 04/28/05 08:29 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
Thank you, Schumann, no offense taken. You do actually have a good point. But remember, I speak with an accent all the time.....
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471193 - 04/28/05 11:09 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
gregjazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/05
Posts: 316
Loc: CA
Shostakovich: Shost-uh-KOE-vitch

Chopin: Show-pahn (with French 'n' sound -- just let your voice float over that 'n' sound, if that makes any sense)
_________________________
Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com

Top
#471194 - 04/29/05 05:50 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jpw101 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 631
Loc: UK

Top
#471195 - 04/29/05 05:50 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
sandman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 605
Loc: toronto
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:

And in all fairness, hyper-enunciation is not always snobbery. Sometimes in New York, for instance, you'll find a waitress who has been coached on the correct pronunciation of "marinara" or some such, and who will therefore deliver her whole spiel with a Long Island twang, except for that one shocking, startling word... [/b]
I always smile when watching Jeopardy, and Alex Trebec busts out some crazy foreign accent on some really impressive sounding words!! \:\)

Top
#471196 - 04/29/05 06:00 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3515
Loc: not in Japan anymore
I started piano after coming to Japan, and thus have learned a lot of composers' names, as well as musical terms etc, first in Japanese (or with Japanese pronunciation) and then later tried to figure out what the English is. And to make it even more confusing, music-talk in Japanese is sprinkled with random German and Italian words (pronounced with Japanese rules) along with the Japanese words. I hate to think of trying to have a conversation in U.S. with other pianists. When we talk music, my mom laughs at me all the time as it is...
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




Top
#471197 - 04/29/05 06:07 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
miseenplace Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Minnesota
How do you pronounce Kysylyczyn?
_________________________
Kuan

Say meez-ahn-plaz

All Hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!

Top
#471198 - 04/29/05 07:05 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
Hi,
being Italian and knowing a bit of German I can provide you with the correct Italian and German pronounciation:

Scherzo = skertzo (where the e is like the e in "bEst" and the last o must be o like in "dOOr" not ou)
Richter = Richter (with the ch like in BaCH)
Bach = Bach (with the ch like in iCH, more like a k followed by an h like in "Have")
Appassionata = Appassionata (sorry no better way to write it down, just be careful with pp and ss, they must sound as double p and double s [means longer]. Another hint, all the a should be pronounced like the u in lUck not ae)
Chopin - Sho-pan
von Weber - fon vaeber
Liszt - List
Schubert - Shoo-Burt
Schumann - Shoo-man (use the same a like the one in AppAssionAtA)
Tchaikovsky - Chai-Couv-ski
Rachmaninov - Rack-man-in-off (again the same a)
Shostakovich - Shostakovic (same a as before and the last c sounds like ch in "CHoice")

I can add also:
piano = piano (the a is like the one in AppAssionAtA)
forte = forte (the r is a ringing r and the last e is like the e in "bEst")
fortissimo (the i is like the one in lIst and the last o like "dOOr")
minuetto (again same i, e and o)
allegro (you bet, same a, e and o)

Now you know the trick: in Italian
a is always like u in lUck
e is always like e in bEst
i is always like i in lIst
o is always like o in dOOR
u is always like o in cOOl

double letter should sound like double (longer) sounds of the single one.

Hope it helps

Top
#471199 - 04/29/05 07:13 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
Very good, Sviatoslav, very good. Just a few minor corrections: The Rach... in Rachmaninov is pronounced like Bach, not Rack.... And Schubert is ScuBERT, not BURT. Like in Bertolucci.
The A in Italian is like U in LUCK????? I thought it was A like in Amore. Then again, non parlo italiano.
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471200 - 04/29/05 07:19 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
u in luck and a in amore are pronounced the same way, isn't it?

you are right about Rachmaninov and Shubert. I just left them as Rack-man-in-off and Shoo-Burt
because I frequently hear Americans pronounce ck like ch in German and burt is a u that resembles the u in "hurt".

Top
#471201 - 04/29/05 09:43 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
 Quote:
Gyorgy Cziffra: "Your-gay Chiffruh"
LOL....childish I know. [/b]
Yeah, you have to put the accent on the right syllable.

"YOUR-gay CHIFF-ruh", not "you're-GAY, Cziffra". [/b]
If I recall correctly, he had his name legally changed to the French equivalent "Georges," which is a lot less difficult to pronounce. It's just the English pronunciation, except with a soft "G," and for the love of God, don't say the "s."

Top
#471202 - 04/29/05 10:02 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sviatoslav:
[QB] u in luck and a in amore are pronounced the same way, isn't it?

Not here in Los Angeles. It' more like a in a in adorable.
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471203 - 04/29/05 11:33 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
how do you say "Richard Strauss"? i heard Richard is pronounced as "ri-card", is that the way to say it?

Top
#471204 - 04/29/05 11:49 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
The "ich" in Richard is pronounced the same way as the German pronoun "ICH".
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471205 - 04/29/05 11:58 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Rick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Chicago
Per Sviatoslav:

 Quote:
Scherzo = skertzo (where the e is like the e in "bEst"
What do you mean here? You're taking away the "r"? Sounds like you want "sket-so". I think it should be "scaret-so". You also said:

 Quote:
forte = forte (the r is a ringing r and the last e is like the e in "bEst")
I've never heard anyone pronounce it this way. I hear the most musically intelligent pronounce it as "for-tay". As an aside, I can't think of any word at all that ends with the e-sound from "best". Are you "best"-happy? You're big on "best" aren't you? \:\) Just wondering.

Top
#471206 - 04/29/05 12:09 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick:
[ I hear the most musically intelligent pronounce it as "for-tay".

Musical intelligence has nothing to do with pronunciation. Quite frankly, I wish I had more of the first and less of the latter.
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471207 - 04/29/05 01:43 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
miseenplace Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Minnesota
So people, how do you pronounce Kysylyczyn?
_________________________
Kuan

Say meez-ahn-plaz

All Hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!

Top
#471208 - 04/29/05 02:01 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
John Rusnak Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 18
 Quote:
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
Scherzo = Sker - tzo
[/b]
I always pronounce it Skair-tzo. Wrong? [/b]
You're right..
if I'm right.

Top
#471209 - 04/29/05 02:43 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1481
Loc: Encino, California
 Quote:
Originally posted by miseenplace:
So people, how do you pronounce Kysylyczyn? [/b]
Exactly like it's written \:D
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

Top
#471210 - 04/29/05 02:58 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
TS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Canada
hmmm...heres my guess "K-eye-s-eye-l-eye-tchine"

When "y" is acting as a vowel, it usually makes an "eye" sound, right??

Top
#471211 - 04/29/05 04:47 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ShiroKuro Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3515
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Well, this just confirms it. I am never talking about these things again, I will only address these topics in writing! Too dangerous otherwise.
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




Top
#471212 - 04/29/05 05:38 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
minorkeyed Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 108
Loc: US
Schumann is pronounced with a soft a: SHOO[/b]-mahn.

Top
#471213 - 04/29/05 05:56 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Mussorgsky "always pronounced his name Mussorgsky, with the accent on the first syllable. Nobody ever listened to him, and today we all pronounce it Mussorgsky, which sounds right to us."

-- David Barber
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471214 - 04/29/05 06:48 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
miseenplace Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Minnesota
 Quote:
Originally posted by TS:
hmmm...heres my guess "K-eye-s-eye-l-eye-tchine"

When "y" is acting as a vowel, it usually makes an "eye" sound, right?? [/b]
Dunno, we all know how to pronounce Krzyzewski because he's famous. But Kysylyczyn? Someone gimme a link to a pronunciation guide. Is that a Polish name?
_________________________
Kuan

Say meez-ahn-plaz

All Hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!

Top
#471215 - 04/30/05 06:48 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jpw101 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 631
Loc: UK
 Quote:
Originally posted by miseenplace:
So people, how do you pronounce Kysylyczyn? [/b]
Kiss-ill-itch-in.

http://www.krykiet.com/polish_pronunciation.htm

Top
#471216 - 04/30/05 08:45 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
 Quote:
Originally posted by sandman:
Rzewski - Zevski [/b]
In polish the rz is pronounced (somehow) as a single syllable with both the R and the Z present, but the Z is closer to the "zjuh" sound like in Dr. Zhivago.

So its something like rjev-ski, emphasis on the first syllable. Think of the r-sound as a grace note to the 'zjuh'.

Interestingly, the one I hear constantly mispronounced is Lutoslawski. If you see it written in Polish, the second 'l' has a line through it. This is distinct from the 'l' without a line through it, and sounds like the 'w' in English. And of course the polish 'w' sounds like 'v'.

So its Lu-to-swav-ski.
_________________________
If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?

Top
#471217 - 04/30/05 08:48 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
 Quote:
Originally posted by miseenplace:
So people, how do you pronounce Kysylyczyn? [/b]
I would say Kih-sihl-ich-in. Just a guess.
_________________________
If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?

Top
#471218 - 04/30/05 09:00 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
miseenplace Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 197
Loc: Minnesota
Ooh thank you folks. Speaking of Polish, is it Wanda Landowski or Landowska?
_________________________
Kuan

Say meez-ahn-plaz

All Hail the Sixteen Men of Tain!

Top
#471219 - 04/30/05 10:29 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
jon-nyc Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2022
Loc: the left bank -- of the east r...
Landowska, I believe.

Many (most?) Polish surnames take a different ending for women than men.

Same with Russian. Vladimir Putin's wife is Ludmila Putina, for example.
_________________________
If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?

Top
#471220 - 04/30/05 07:48 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
ishldbpracticing88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 103
Loc: SC
What about "vivace"?
_________________________
"The aim and the final reason of all music should be nothing else but the glory of God and the refreshment of the human spirit."
-Johann Sebastian Bach

P.S. Rach rocks

Top
#471221 - 04/30/05 10:57 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
vivace = viv-ach-ae (CH as in CHair)
_________________________
- Zack -

Top
#471222 - 05/02/05 12:28 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
>> Not here in Los Angeles. It' more like a in a in adorable.

:-), textual description of pronounciation is really hard, I just realized it. So, vowels in italian have got only one pronounciation; if the first a in adorable it sounds like the a in math or bath, fine. And it's the same a we use in appassionata and in all other words.

>> vivace = viv-ach-ae (CH as in CHair)

Correct, provided that the i i pronounced like ee in teen. Be careful about the final e; it should sound like the a in bag or the e in self (they should have a very similar sound in English). Nothing more, don't add any additional sound. If you say something that resembles to ay it's something that in Italian sounds ... like an American trying to speak Italian :-D.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Rick:
Per Sviatoslav:

 Quote:
Scherzo = skertzo (where the e is like the e in "bEst"
What do you mean here? You're taking away the "r"? Sounds like you want "sket-so". I think it should be "scaret-so". You also said:

But, I didn't remove the r?!
I'll try differently: s-k-e-r-ts-o
where e is like a in bag
r is ringing
o is like the o in gold
And don't add anything alse. In Italian you are not allowed to add something that is not explicitly written; there is a perfect (with some few, very few, exceptions) match between what is written and how it is pronounced.

 Quote:
forte = forte (the r is a ringing r and the last e is like the e in "bEst")
I've never heard anyone pronounce it this way. I hear the most musically intelligent pronounce it as "for-tay". As an aside, I can't think of any word at all that ends with the e-sound from "best". Are you "best"-happy? You're big on "best" aren't you? \:\) Just wondering. [/b]
Again, let me try again differently:
f-o-r-t-e
O like o in gold
r is ringing
e is like a in bag or e in self
I have to say it again because this is a recurring mistake: "ay" at the end of Italian words ending with "e" is ALWAYS wrong. I'm sorry for the "musical intelligents" but it's definetely not the right one. Again that "y" is something that produces a sound of an "ee" (like in teen) to an Italian ear; it's not written explicitly, so it must not be there.
It's like if I pronounce in English bag like bayg; is it right? I don't think so :-D.

Top
#471223 - 05/03/05 07:08 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
devils4ever Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 477
Loc: northwest NJ
Okay, how do you pronounce "Pathetique"?
_________________________
"Applaud friends, the comedy is over." --Ludwig van Beethoven on his deathbed.
August Förster 190 Artcase

Top
#471224 - 05/03/05 07:30 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by devils4ever:
Okay, how do you pronounce "Pathetique"? [/b]
It depends: "Pathetique" is French while "Patetica" is Italian. The two pronouncitaions are not very different:
pathetique = p-a-t-e-t-i-c
using the a and e explained above (like in Italian) and be careful to the t, that sound is not like the English th in thunder but is just a t like in tempest. Here the accent is on the i; be careful, usually English speaking people put the accent on the e. In French it must be on the i.

patetica = p-a-t-e-i-c-a
Same as before but you have to add an a at the end (an Italian a :-) ). Here the accent goes on the e.

Top
#471225 - 05/03/05 07:43 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
so, 'th' in Pathetique doesn't sound like 'th' but 't'? it's the 1st time i heard that.

Top
#471226 - 05/03/05 08:28 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18287
Loc: Victoria, BC
Yes, if you pronounce Pathétique as "pathetic," that woud be pathetic!! \:D

It should be pronounced: pa - tay - teek, with the accent on the last syllable.
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#471227 - 05/03/05 09:28 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by Sviatoslav:
 Quote:
Originally posted by devils4ever:
Okay, how do you pronounce "Pathetique"? [/b]
patetica = p-a-t-e-i-c-a
Same as before but you have to add an a at the end (an Italian a :-) ). Here the accent goes on the e. [/b]
ooops, just forgot a t
p-a-t-e-t-i-c-a

Top
#471228 - 05/03/05 09:31 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
The French pronunciation would be pah-tey-teek[/b].

To go off on a tangent, I just found last week that Abbado is pronounced ah-BAH-doh[/b] (as opposed to AH-bah-doh). News to me.

Top
#471229 - 05/03/05 09:54 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
The French pronunciation would be pah-tey-teek[/b].

To go off on a tangent, I just found last week that Abbado is pronounced ah-BAH-doh[/b] (as opposed to AH-bah-doh). News to me. [/b]
If a capital B means double b and a capital A means that the accent falls there, you are completely right.

Top
#471230 - 05/03/05 11:37 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Rick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Chicago
Alright Sviatoslav, I'll concede on the forte. I'll take your word on that, since it certainly sounds feasible or reasonable. But there's no way I'm gonna give you "scherzo". It's hard for me to see how you get a short a (as in bag) out of scherzo. I think the misunderstanding stems from these sounds that are combinations of a vowel followed by a consonant. At least in some of these combos (as in the English "er" as in Hertz), the new sound is another wholly independent vowel sound. This "new" vowel sound is totally "steady state" in that if you pronounce it and hold that sound for awhile, the sound is the same at the beginning as near the end (unless you have a bad voice or bad lungs). With that in mind (and assuming that is true), it's not really relevant or appropriate to say that the "er" in Hertz is made up of a separate vowel sound and a separate consonant. It's a new, wholly independent vowel sound (in English anyway) that we spell as "er". You may agree with that, yet you could still be right about "scherzo". Because I will concede that some combinations of vowels and consonants (beginnining with a vowel) such as "are" in "scare" may not be "steady state". Yet they are not simple sequential combinations of a vowel and a consonant either. Most people probably pronounce the last half of "scare" as "err", with almost no remnant of the "long a" sound remaining. So I guess I'd still like to know, after all this rambling, do you hear a "are" (as in scare) when you say "scherzo"? Or is it something else entirely?

Rick

Top
#471231 - 05/03/05 01:38 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Schumann Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 84
Loc: Bloomington, IN
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rick:
do you hear a "are" (as in scare) when you say "scherzo"? Or is it something else entirely? [/b]
It's the same sound as the "er" in "concerto", whether you're speaking English or Italian.

But it is not at all the same sound in English as it is in Italian. \:\)

Top
#471232 - 05/04/05 02:48 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
t kachu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 82
 Quote:
Originally posted by ChatNoir:
I have been in America for almost 30 years, and I STILL haven't heard Bach pronounced correctly. It's prounounced like Nacht, Wacht, (without the "T" of course). [/b]
It might be because this sound is not prevailent in the english language and just sounds wierd coming out of an english speakers mouth.
_________________________
Seriously

Top
#471233 - 05/04/05 02:56 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
t kachu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 82
Chopin is pronounced

show pah -you cut off the n sound a lot

Georges is pronounced

jurj -like splurge with a J

Scherzo is pronounced

skaird/t zo

appassionata is pronounced

passion with ah at the beginning and ahtah at the end

mein ami come les spices
_________________________
Seriously

Top
#471234 - 05/04/05 10:14 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by t kachu:
Chopin is pronounced

show pah -you cut off the n sound a lot

Georges is pronounced

jurj -like splurge with a J

Scherzo is pronounced

skaird/t zo

appassionata is pronounced

passion with ah at the beginning and ahtah at the end

mein ami come les spices [/b]
It looks like that scherzo is pretty challenging here.
skaird/t zo - I don't know how to get it. I don't know how you intend AI to be pronounced but if it's a sequence of an a like in math and an i like the ee in teen, sorry but it not the right pronounciation.

I realize that we could go on for ever in this thread because the rendereing in writings of an actual pronounciation is always biased by different languages, accents, and inflections. So, could you please tell me if there is a simple way to upload somewhere a short audio file?
I can provide all of the Italian, French, and German words you may dream of.

Top
#471235 - 05/04/05 02:01 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
ok, how do you pronounce (German i suppose):

'Les Adieux'
'Grosse Fuge'
'Archduke'
'Favori (Andande Fovori)'

Top
#471236 - 05/04/05 02:05 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
TS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 869
Loc: Canada
"Lé A-doo" I believe. With that french sounding "oo".

Top
#471237 - 05/04/05 02:27 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Sviatoslav Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 98
Loc: Italy, Torino
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:
ok, how do you pronounce (German i suppose):

'Les Adieux'
'Grosse Fuge'
'Archduke'
'Favori (Andande Fovori)' [/b]
Les adieux is French and the most challenging is the sound of eux. I don't know how to describe it in writings, :-) sorry. I don't even know if this sound exists in English.

Andante Favori is Italian and you can follow the guidelines above.

All of the rest is German.

Let me reiterate; any place where to upload examples?

Top
#471238 - 05/04/05 03:11 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
i guess that you could make a sound clip and upload to this forum (as those recordings posted here), and there is probably some instruction about uploading somewhere on this forum. i haven't done that here, so cannot say how.

btw, does 'eux' sound similar to 'u' or 'u-oo'?

Top
#471239 - 05/04/05 03:20 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Yes it does. But it has that odd unique French sound.

Also, I've been told that in French, there is a specific way to pronounce "te" - as in "Le Morte." you do not necessarily pronounce the "e" but at the same time you do not entirely drop it. The sound comes at the end of the "t" very slightly - almost as if you put extra accent on the "t". Can any French speakers varify/correct this?
_________________________
- Zack -

Top
#471240 - 05/04/05 04:21 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
lay-za-dyeuh[/b] is the closest I can get.

"Eux" does NOT sound like "u."

Top
#471241 - 05/04/05 07:58 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
CCM Stephen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 461
Loc: Savannah GA
put your mouth into the position that you would normally say "oo" but instead say "yeah" and that will sound pretty close

Top
#471242 - 05/05/05 07:34 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
t kachu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 82
 Quote:
Originally posted by Sviatoslav:
 Quote:
Originally posted by t kachu:
Chopin is pronounced

show pah -you cut off the n sound a lot

Georges is pronounced

jurj -like splurge with a J

Scherzo is pronounced

skaird/t zo

appassionata is pronounced

passion with ah at the beginning and ahtah at the end

mein ami come les spices [/b]
It looks like that scherzo is pretty challenging here.
skaird/t zo - I don't know how to get it. I don't know how you intend AI to be pronounced but if it's a sequence of an a like in math and an i like the ee in teen, sorry but it not the right pronounciation.

I realize that we could go on for ever in this thread because the rendereing in writings of an actual pronounciation is always biased by different languages, accents, and inflections. So, could you please tell me if there is a simple way to upload somewhere a short audio file?
I can provide all of the Italian, French, and German words you may dream of. [/b]
It's almost like the spanish e

air (like what we breathe) = er in spanish

Scared or skaird, like afraid (the /t means that it can either be with a t sound or a d sound)

+

zo like Zoe Zone Zophar
_________________________
Seriously

Top
#471243 - 05/06/05 02:22 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Wim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 196
Loc: Belgium
Sviatoslav,

'Archduke' is an English word for 'Erzherzog', which was the title of the sovereign prince(s) of the former ruling house of Austria.

It's pronounced 'arch - dyook'.

The 'eux'-sound in 'les adieux' sounds like the Swedish 'ö'.

Wim

Top
#471244 - 05/06/05 12:02 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
does 'arch' or 'ch' in Archduke sound like in 'Bach'?

i have no idea about how Swedish sounds, but i could guess how 'eux' might sound now.

Top
#471245 - 05/06/05 01:53 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by TS:
"Lé A-doo" I believe. With that french sounding "oo". [/b]
"Adieux" begins with a vowel, so you have to connect it from the 's' in "Les":

Lay-za-dyoo. ('oo' as in 'book')
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471246 - 05/07/05 05:21 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SinspawnAmmes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Houston, TX
Why can nobody pronounce Chopin right?

As residence French guy, I'll like to interject. "show-pan" is as bad as you can make it. It's like saying Bush as "Boousch".

Cho-pin, translated to French, would be "Show" (let the 'w' linger a bit, legato, not staccato), and "puhhn". If anyone knows some french, equate it to the french word for bread, "pain". If you don't know French (I can't believe I'm using this analogy), look to 50 Cent's new song, "This is how we do".

When he says the line,
"50, uhh, Bentley, uhh...", and etc., the last syllable of Chopin's name would be like that 'uhh', except with a 'p' in front of it. There should be a nuanced 'n' at the end though.

Edit:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by TS:
"Lé A-doo" I believe. With that french sounding "oo". [/b]
"Adieux" begins with a vowel, so you have to connect it from the 's' in "Les":

Lay-za-dyoo. ('oo' as in 'book') [/b]
No no no no no no!!!! No offense, pianojerome, but adieu is pronounced nothing like that. Allow me to clarify. You are right about attaching the words, but Les wouldn't be "lay". Imagine the french word for milk, or think of the word "less". Take out the two 's' and say that. It's how you would say Les. The last syllabe of adieu would be the same as saying "eee-yuuuh", except really fast. The word in total would be "ahh-deee-yuuuh", all said super legato, a bit like the 'uh' in 50 Cent's song, but with more of a "u" inside. I can't really illustrate, since there's no English word that has that sound. The vowel collection 'ieu' always makes that 'eee-yuuuh", such as in "milieu" (middle), "mieux" (better), and more. Remember, 'ahh-deee-yuhhh', with a deeper 'u', not an "oo" sound like in book, but not an "uh" sound like in "50, uh, Bentley, uh". A bit in-between.

Edit again:
 Quote:
Originally posted by C.V. Alkan:
Yes it does. But it has that odd unique French sound.

Also, I've been told that in French, there is a specific way to pronounce "te" - as in "Le Morte." you do not necessarily pronounce the "e" but at the same time you do not entirely drop it. The sound comes at the end of the "t" very slightly - almost as if you put extra accent on the "t". Can any French speakers varify/correct this? [/b]
Sorry, I forgot to address this. 'Eux' is pronounced the same way "ieu" is prounounced, for some odd reason. Again, if I could record and upload, it would be much easier to illustrate, but I have SATs in 10 minutes...

About the 'te': Again, that 'uh' that doesn't quite sound like 'oo' but not like "50, uh..." comes in. Anytime you have an 'e' at the end of a word w/o an accent, it's silent, but not in the sense that you drop it. Instead, you extend the consonent BEFORE it. For example, 'mort' is the masculine form of "dead", and an adjective. Mort = 'morrr', with the 'r' rolled. There's something a slight 't' added. Notice, the last consonent isn't emphasized. "Morte" is the feminine. The difference is that morte = 'more' - 'teuh', with the 'tayeuh' thrown in very inconspiciously (MORE-teuh) The last syllable sound be almost invisible, and said extremely fast, so much that it shouldn't sound like there's a "tay" unless you speak in slow-mo. . In 'morte', the T is stressed, and French speakers naturally through the 'euh' in at the end. 'oo' > 'euh' > "50, uh".
_________________________
Demi me, please!

Top
#471247 - 05/07/05 08:16 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
very interesting! but i just don't really know how this 'uh' and even 'puhhn' sounds. it becomes really difficult to say 'Chopin' now: 'show-----puuuhhhn :rolleyes: ?

btw, i'm getting pretty good to say 'les adieux' now!

Top
#471248 - 05/07/05 08:43 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
You people just need to tune in to wqxr, if you dont have it in your area then go to wqxr.com. Look at their daily playlist and when you see a Chopin song tune in and see how the guy pronounces it, I forget as I have listened to them in a while but usually they pronounced it the correct way, for all composers, especially the french lady that does it at night I forget her name, she pronounces every composer's name exactly as it should be.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

Top
#471249 - 05/07/05 01:35 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SinspawnAmmes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Houston, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:
very interesting! but i just don't really know how this 'uh' and even 'puhhn' sounds. it becomes really difficult to say 'Chopin' now: 'show-----puuuhhhn :rolleyes: ?

btw, i'm getting pretty good to say 'les adieux' now! [/b]
Good job on "Les Adieux"!

The best help I can give you for 'Chopin' is as follows:

Tune in to your local internet/radio rap station. Or Yahoo Launch. Or anything that can get you overplayed, low-quality 50 cent tracks (aka everywhere). Look for the song "This is how we do", though it might be by 'Game', who is 50 cent's brother or something. Not sure.

When the line comes up about halfway through the song, when 50 says, "50, uh, Bentley, uh...", say it along with him. Say the 'uh' with the exact same tone. Draw it out the same way. Oddly, 50 cent accidentally made one of the most well-nuanced 'uh' out of any English speaker that I've heard in a while. Anyway, sleep with that 'uh', dream it, eat it, drink it. Then, add a 'p' in front, and a very slight 'n' at the end, almost like an afterthought (most Frenchies don't do it, kinda of like people say 'kinda' instead of 'kind of', but your choice). The 'n' isn't necessary, but the 'uh' is pretty important.

Another tip for 'adieux'. My cousin told me they do this at his school. Punch yourself in the stomach while trying to make a 'u'. Flex your abs until it hurts at the last minute. Your diaphram will contract enough to distort the 'u', and it usually comes out close to 'eux'. Don't punch yourself out though. It's wierd, because 'eux' is so common in French, yet it's nowhere in English, and the two languages are pretty close in most aspects.
_________________________
Demi me, please!

Top
#471250 - 05/07/05 03:11 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by SinspawnAmmes:
Edit:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianojerome:
 Quote:
Originally posted by TS:
"Lé A-doo" I believe. With that french sounding "oo". [/b]
"Adieux" begins with a vowel, so you have to connect it from the 's' in "Les":

Lay-za-dyoo. ('oo' as in 'book') [/b]
No no no no no no!!!! No offense, pianojerome, but adieu is pronounced nothing like that. Allow me to clarify. You are right about attaching the words, but Les wouldn't be "lay". Imagine the french word for milk, or think of the word "less". Take out the two 's' and say that. It's how you would say Les. The last syllabe of adieu would be the same as saying "eee-yuuuh", except really fast. The word in total would be "ahh-deee-yuuuh", all said super legato, a bit like the 'uh' in 50 Cent's song, but with more of a "u" inside. I can't really illustrate, since there's no English word that has that sound. The vowel collection 'ieu' always makes that 'eee-yuuuh", such as in "milieu" (middle), "mieux" (better), and more. Remember, 'ahh-deee-yuhhh', with a deeper 'u', not an "oo" sound like in book, but not an "uh" sound like in "50, uh, Bentley, uh". A bit in-between.
[/b]
Heh, I always pronounce "milieu" and "mieux" with the "eu" sounding like the "oo" in "book" (mill-y-eu (eu as in oo as in book).

My French teacher is French and that's how she pronounces it... I've never asked her about "adieux", though.

Maybe it's between "uh" and "boo[/b]k", but I can't imagine it's just like "uh"!

But I could be wrong! :p
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471251 - 05/07/05 04:43 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SinspawnAmmes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Houston, TX
Your French teacher says 'eux' as 'oo'?

Is she Parisian? Some people near Toulouse say it that way, but it's considered "barbaric" French by us Parisian elitists!
_________________________
Demi me, please!

Top
#471252 - 05/07/05 05:56 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
LOL.

Yes, "oo" as in "book" and "look" and "cook".

She's from the south of France. I forget the name of the village, but I think it's in the Pyrenées.
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471253 - 05/07/05 10:06 PM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
SinspawnAmmes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Houston, TX
Ahh, I see. Well, Parisian french is the one taught in schools, so who are you gonna believe? No pressure, I swear.
_________________________
Demi me, please!

Top
#471254 - 05/08/05 05:06 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
\:D
_________________________
Sam

Top
#471255 - 06/15/05 07:31 AM Re: The Pronunciations Thread
gordonf238 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 283
Loc: NYC
sorry to revive the thread, but how does one properly pronounce idil biret, evegny kissin and herbert von karajan?

i'm always wary of saying them, in fear of being the laughing stock

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
- > Gift Ideas for Music Lovers < -
From PianoSupplies.com a division of Piano World.
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
A new clip of Don Pullen in action
by rintincop
12/17/14 11:03 PM
Learn a Song in 7 minutes: Carol of the Bells
by Hugh Sung
12/17/14 10:11 PM
December 2014 Holiday Piano Bar
by piano_primo_1
12/17/14 06:14 PM
The Language of Taste - Pianos, Wine ... and Birds
by PNO40
12/17/14 05:16 PM
Good Practice Amp for Roland FP7F?
by TheloniousPunk
12/17/14 04:24 PM
Forum Stats
77333 Members
42 Forums
159946 Topics
2348980 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission