Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
162 registered (accordeur, 36251, acortot, Albunea, 39 invisible), 1559 Guests and 14 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#476562 - 11/15/07 01:49 PM Porter's Beguine
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Here’s Cole Porter’s "Begin the Beguine" (first 4 measures).



The notation does not convey the inherent beat of the Beguine ... which is contained in the rhythmic note pattern of C.G (rh).G.G .

The note durations to capture the Beguine beat should be
C (1/8-note), G (dotted 1/4-note), G (1/4-note), lower G (1/4-note)

Any thoughts?

Top
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
#476563 - 11/15/07 01:54 PM Re: Porter's Beguine
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22466
Loc: Oakland
The only problem I see is that the last two quarter notes are Gs, not Cs, which is your mistake. Perhaps you should take this up with Señorita Nina, from Argentina.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#476564 - 11/15/07 02:03 PM Re: Porter's Beguine
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Thanks BDB ... the last two are indeed Gs (corrected original).

Top
#476565 - 11/15/07 03:16 PM Re: Porter's Beguine
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18755
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Here’s Cole Porter’s "Begin the Beguine" (first 4 measures).
The notation does not convey the inherent beat of the Beguine ... which is contained in the rhythmic note pattern of C.G (rh).G.G .

The note durations to capture the Beguine beat should be
C (1/8-note), G (dotted 1/4-note), G (1/4-note), lower G (1/4-note)

Any thoughts? [/b]
I think from the viewpoint of strict theory rules, you could not have, in common (4/4)time, an eighth note on the first beat followed by a dotted quarter; I believe it would have to be an eighth note on the first beat followed by an eighth note that is tied to a quarter. It produces precisely the same rhythmic effect, it just follows the rules of music notation - I think.

Is your quibble with Porter's notation the fact that the first note (C) is held, rather than being simply an eighth note? Otherwise, I've always felt that this notation captures the haunting rhythm of the beguine quite well - for those of us who don't have Latin blood flowing in our veins.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#476566 - 11/15/07 05:00 PM Re: Porter's Beguine
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Notation always approximates a style. It can never fully encapsulate it.

Given that, I think a person who knows a bit about the beguine would be able to decipher the style from the notation above.

The same is true of any genre or composer.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#476567 - 11/15/07 07:44 PM Re: Porter's Beguine
bryan s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 180
Loc: new york
Cole Porter wasn't exactly from south of the border either.
_________________________
John Coltrane saved my life.

Top
#476568 - 11/15/07 07:55 PM Re: Porter's Beguine
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22466
Loc: Oakland
What do you mean? He was from Peru! \:\)
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#476569 - 11/15/07 11:21 PM Re: Porter's Beguine
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Delightfully vague Kreisler.

"Notation always approximates a style.
It can never fully encapsulate it."

It is stretching the bounds of reason to suggest
"Given that, I think a person who knows a bit about the Beguine would be able to decipher the style from the notation above."

In the Beguine example ... why can’t the note durations be accurately shown to fully capture the French West Indies beat?

The same is not true of any genre or composer ... Beethoven is spot on with his notation ... but then, of course ... he never wrote a Beguine.

Top
#476570 - 11/15/07 11:47 PM Re: Porter's Beguine
bryan s Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 180
Loc: new york
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
What do you mean? He was from Peru! \:\) [/b]
:D That was a good one. It took a little outside research for me to get it though!
_________________________
John Coltrane saved my life.

Top
#476571 - 11/16/07 01:25 AM Re: Porter's Beguine
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22466
Loc: Oakland
Did you figure out who Señorita Nina from Argentina is?
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#476572 - 11/16/07 01:42 AM Re: Porter's Beguine
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9040
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by bryan s:
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
What do you mean? He was from Peru! \:\)
:D That was a good one. It took a little outside research for me to get it though!
LOL, I "got it", but not after a moment of huh? Being very fond of Cole Porter, I have read several of his bios -one of them totally glossed over a rather major aspect of his private life- so the "Peru" thing fell into place fairly quickly.

As for Señorita Nina, well there's stuff in Google about that. Not the first time BDB has kept us on our collective toes.
_________________________
Jason

Top
#476573 - 11/16/07 02:46 AM Re: Porter's Beguine
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
You chaps are obviously not Beguiners (sorry about that) ... but I can't sit around here idly chatting ... must get to my deck-chair for the Pretoria-venue cricket test match ... NZ took a pasting in the first test ... we're hoping for a ding-dong 2nd test starting in less than an hour ... it's a bit early for a beer... but with the sunny temperature already on 27 degrees C it won't be long.

Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Composer Statuettes
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
"Tone" and "balance"
by qazsedcft
05/27/15 05:38 PM
Which Beethoven sonata has this rhythm?
by JoelW
05/27/15 02:56 PM
Shipping a concert grand by air cargo...How do they do that?
by Piano Practice
05/27/15 02:51 PM
A pianist's 'touch' affects sustained tone - NOT!
by prout
05/27/15 01:40 PM
Will Steinway really pay me to downgrade my Bösendorfer?
by Thrill Science
05/27/15 01:36 PM
What's Hot!!
New Forum for Selling Your Products or Services
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
79,439 Registered Members
44 Forums
164,383 Topics
2,411,337 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission