I'm struggling with measure 31. (C, Eb, A, Eb)
I find fingering 1,2,3,5 to be much more comfortable than 1,2,4,5. But I see that all editions have 1,2,4,5 as their fingerings. Does anyone find this a bit weird?

(http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/et10_1.pdf)

Agreed. I never understood why all editions have 1245 in that bar, 1235 is much more comfortable for me. such an awkward stretch for 4th and 5th fingers if you pick that fingering... About practicing this etude in general: a good idea to make it more secure is to practice with various accents, ie practicing a few bars accenting the first sixteenthnote in each group of four, then the second etc. Reminds me of that I have to practice this etude again - I'm playing it in competition in less than two months!

btw, cortot had the idea that you could change the fingering to make it a "thumb under"-study - simply finger it like this: 251 32513 etc. Haven't done that myself though.
Transposing is also recommended to improve security.

the same thing with op.10.2 fingerings. there's a sequence passage with the same fingerings (page 3) and after 1st chord of each group, my edition says '5-4' on next notes, which i found quite uncomfortable. so, i asked my teacher, and he said he uses '5-3' instead, which i tried and is much more comfortable and easier to do. so, change the fingering if you have to.

there are many things that you can rearrange in op 10 no 2 to ease the strain of the 3-4-5 fingers. For instance in bar 4, beat 1-2, take the right hand E played by the thumb with the left hand instead and use 2-3-2-3 etc for the H-C-H-C which you'd have to do with the weaker fingers otherwise. It's maybe not what I do when I practice the piece, but for performance I'd definately do some rearrangements.

i dont have fingering on my edition, but i cant believe 1245 an option, 1235 is tricky enough, but if the edition says 1245 i almpst certainly would oblige, if it isnt more comfortable then it must be at least more beneficial.
c eb a eb is the trickest one there is i think.

I have average-sized hands and I prefer 1245. Of course, it's not necessary to physically connect the A to the E-flat. 2314 is easier and more secure, but it causes a change of phrasing and accentuation which is very difficult to disguise.

1245 is Chopin's fingering. I use 1235.

One might say impossible to disguise.

I have fairly large hands, but 1245 is just too difficult so I use the alternate fingering in the Peters Edition, 1253. This also changes the phrasing, though I cannot see any alternative if I wish to maintain speed and accuracy. I wonder what fingering Liszt used.

2-3-1-3 or 2-3-1-4 (depending on how big your hands are)

Whatever you do--avoid awkward stretches that may causue injuries. Take care!

Hmmm, 1253 had never occurred to me. I'm tempted to try it out, but I'm afraid to open up a can of worms!

i think its certain that liszt used 1245, out of respect to chopin, if not thenn 1235, usind variants of thumb under finger over etc. is almost against the etude isnt it?

anyone tried taking the Eb with the LH?
I tried it today-it may or may not work....
I started taking the C# with the LH in the dreaded A major bar... so maybe this could also work.
I tried 2313 for a while but the phrasing wasn't good enough...

i dont understand why everyone wants to change the whole idea of the etude lol. it seems silly to be playing it and neglecting one or two bars. i suppose its ok if the proper way has been learned first, or as well, because then it is just more exersise, but i really think they should be treated with the same fingering ideas.

lol i've played this etude "the proper way" for 5 years. changing the fingering in 1 or 2 out of 50 measures to accomodate for extreme difficulties in the passagework shows intellegience on the part of the performer.
In the case of these two measures, I would be EQUALLY impressed by someone who takes notes with the LH and keeps the phrasing and articulation the same as the rest of the piece as someone who plays those measures successfully with the traditional fingering.

I can get the 2 measures in question at least 8 or 9 times out of 10 correct.
that isn't good enough for the concert stage.
plus... I play this etude at over 200

over 200, metrnome you mean, a crotchet??

by the proper way i may add i dont mean it quite so literally, but after all, it is an etude, and yes 1 or 2 is a small fraction of 50, but still, you do see what i mean?

by the way, i am no good pianist and my views could be easily simply discarded , but it is a forum.

how do you play the 2 measures in question then?

over 200 as opposed to 176
I just play them. A major bar with LH takeovers... other one just RH

"at least 8 or 9 times out of 10 correct"... what a perfectionist. Although I agree; my teacher says that you have to be 120% capable of playing your pieces if you're planning to play them in a recital. I would say that LH takeovers are a bit risky because there's a chance you accent Eb too much and sound artificial. Just a thought. I've tried the hard way, 1-2-4-5, and it's not too bad after all. This is the problem with fingerings; you don't know which one to stick with... hella frustrating.

sorry guys... 90% isn't good enough for the concert stage.

LH takeovers WILL sound artificial. people in the audience WILL hear the difference.

HOWEVER, I would rather that than 10 or 15% chance of BLOWING those measures...

90 percent definiitely isnt enough, but if you can play most of the piece i assure you you can practise the tricky bars so that you have 100 percent accuracy on it.

lol once again... I've played this piece for 5 years. Practiced it for hundreds of hours. Still, the 2 most difficult bars I consider too risky to perform using the printed fingering.
Horowitz never recorded this etude for a reason-he considered it the most difficult of all of Chopin's etudes.

i thought it was out of the op.10 he thought that?

no way! you must do something wrong, there isnt a way you could do all other measures but not those two!! you must not be neglecting getting your hand in the right place, or not touching the c sharp with your finger sufficently enough before playing.
you must find out what it is!!!!

lol trust me. I touch every key before playing it... in every bar of every piece. always. ever. end of story.
Those 2 measures are just plain risky. If you can play them at 200 quarter note beats per minute perfectly EVERY single time using the printed fingering (which I HIGHLY doubt) then you are a beast and I salute you
personally I find the takeovers in the a major bar (NOT the c eb a eb bar) very helpful.
as i said before, I can do it perfectly at least 90% of the time with the printed fingering. but I KNOW that one of these days in performance it just won't work.

what gets me in the a major bar is my 4th finger occasionally smacks the G#. to me, this kills the performance.

i thuoght it would be the your fifth finger that made the trouble, on the c sharp.
i cannot play them perfectly every singe time . . . .not a soul in the world can do that!!!
but i can hit them just as accurately as the others.

the a major bar is so hard... I **** up that one way too often - going downwards the 4th fingers sometimes hits the Bb instead of A. kitty is right, it kills the performance, when the rest works out well and one bar is just a mess..

lol cause the pedal is down for like 2 bars. if you get a wrong note, it's STUCK in the pedal, and there's NOTHING you can do for 2 bars.

Practise practise practise!!!