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#478728 - 12/17/07 09:43 PM Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
I'm considering learning the Rigaudon from this suite. How difficult is this piece? I don't have the score, so I can't check offhand.
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#478729 - 12/17/07 10:57 PM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I don't think it's terribly difficult. I haven't played it, but I am familiar with it and have the music. I would think it's around the level of Debussy Arabesques, maybe a bit harder. But it doesn't appear to be difficult like the Toccata is \:D . The LH jumps around a bit playing low chords and jumping up to a higher note, but the tempo isn't super fast, just "somewhat lively" (assez vif). As with all Ravel, the reading can be a bit difficult, even though it's in C, he throws in plenty of accidentals.

I really love the whole suite, but so far I've only managed to do the Prelude. Let me know how it goes!
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#478730 - 12/18/07 05:32 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
I have played this piece and IMO it is quite a few leagues harder than the Debussy Arabesques, if only for the speed of jumps and swift changes of hand position, fast semiquaver passagework in both left and right hands, as well as pulling the odd fairly thick chord out of the air. But don't let that put you off \:\) , start very slowly and see where it goes, thinking of each note/chord as a springboard for the next rather than a destination in itself. However, as mentioned above, it is certainly not as challenging as the Toccata. You can leave that for next month ;\) .

The Rigaudon is a marvellous piece, also one of my favourites in its orchestral version.

-Michael B.
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#478731 - 12/18/07 07:04 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
I have played this piece and IMO it is quite a few leagues harder than the Debussy Arabesques, if only for the speed of jumps and swift changes of hand position, fast semiquaver passagework in both left and right hands, as well as pulling the odd fairly thick chord out of the air. But don't let that put you off \:\) , start very slowly and see where it goes, thinking of each note/chord as a springboard for the next rather than a destination in itself. However, as mentioned above, it is certainly not as challenging as the Toccata. You can leave that for next month ;\) .

The Rigaudon is a marvellous piece, also one of my favourites in its orchestral version.

-Michael B. [/b]
Even if it is "quite a few leagues harder than the Debussy Arabesques", it doesn't sound like much of a challenge. Of course, I might go on to learn the whole suite, that might take a few more months.

It seems quite manageable. I just need to dig up that score, I'll try it out in a bit.

BTW, I happen to love the orchestral version too. I've been listening to a lot of Ravel lately. It all happened when I heard Tzigane on an airplane. I just love that piece, I've probably heard it 100 times since then.
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#478732 - 12/18/07 09:45 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
It seems quite manageable.

Probably around a similar level to the 3rd movement of the Sonatine; overall rhythmic feel and precise articulation in the outer sections, and the repeated wide LH leaps in the middle section are probably the main challenges. The piece is definitely of post-ABRSM Grade 8 standard, and though perhaps not too long before getting the basics down, takes quite a bit of concentrated work on the numerous tricky details to get to a convincing performance standard. At least that's what I found, YPianoPlayingMV of course \:\) .

Michael B.
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#478733 - 12/18/07 11:09 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
It seems quite manageable.

Probably around a similar level to the 3rd movement of the Sonatine; overall rhythmic feel and precise articulation in the outer sections, and the repeated wide LH leaps in the middle section are probably the main challenges. The piece is definitely of post-ABRSM Grade 8 standard, and though perhaps not too long before getting the basics down, takes quite a bit of concentrated work on the numerous tricky details to get to a convincing performance standard. At least that's what I found, YPianoPlayingMV of course \:\) .

Michael B. [/b]
This is post-grade 8?

I've been playing through it, it doesn't seem that difficult.

Perhaps it's cause I've played a lot of pieces with wide left hand leaps (HR2!).

Anyway, I'm glad I have big hands. There are a bunch of 10ths that I'd be afraid of otherwise.
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#478734 - 12/18/07 12:06 PM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19590
Loc: New York City
It's far more difficult than the Arabesques. As far as playing the whole suite, some of the movements require professional level technique. The Forlane and Minuet are easier parts of this piece and both are very beautiful.

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#478735 - 12/18/07 04:51 PM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I don't think it's on par with the 3rd movement of Sonatine. Perhaps the 1st movement. But then again, I haven't played it only heard the piece many times and looked at the score, so I reserve the right to be wrong :p \:D
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#478736 - 12/18/07 05:20 PM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
kyliec Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 77
Hi, Rigaudon is listed as a grade 8 piece with the Australian Music Examination Board.
cheers, Kylie

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#478737 - 12/18/07 05:44 PM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
kyliec:
Rigaudon is listed as a grade 8 piece with the Australian Music Examination Board.

Therefore I sit corrected :p . I still reckon that it easily rivals the pieces I recently played for the DipABRSM diploma, but perhaps that goes to show that what one person considers tricky and challenging does not necessarily correspond with others' evaluations. Then again, LvB Op.90 was on both the Grade 8 and DipABRSM syllabuses recently, so the same material can indeed be used for various examinations, though of course the standard of performance expected would be quite different.

Anyway I am looking forward to playadom's Rigaudon recording soon ;\)

-Michael B.
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#478738 - 12/18/07 09:40 PM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
kyliec:
Rigaudon is listed as a grade 8 piece with the Australian Music Examination Board.

Therefore I sit corrected :p . I still reckon that it easily rivals the pieces I recently played for the DipABRSM diploma, but perhaps that goes to show that what one person considers tricky and challenging does not necessarily correspond with others' evaluations. Then again, LvB Op.90 was on both the Grade 8 and DipABRSM syllabuses recently, so the same material can indeed be used for various examinations, though of course the standard of performance expected would be quite different.

Anyway I am looking forward to playadom's Rigaudon recording soon ;\)

-Michael B. [/b]
Hey... I'm not that good, and it is grade 8(+). Give me a month or two...
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#478739 - 12/19/07 05:06 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
drumour Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 861
Loc: Scotland
 Quote:
Originally posted by kyliec:
Hi, Rigaudon is listed as a grade 8 piece with the Australian Music Examination Board.
cheers, Kylie [/b]
Is that Ravel's Rigaudon from the Tombeau de Couperin?


John
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#478740 - 12/19/07 06:11 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1801
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
there are some hand rearrangements that you can do in the beginning I believe, instead of all of that jumping with the left hand over the right...my old teacher, who studied the piece with Perlemuter, rearranged it that way, don't know if it was Perlemuters idea though.

sometimes composers notate in a certain way more for "clearness" purposes - for instance the long section with repeated notes in Scarbo - I heard from someone that Ravel had said that he didn't expect people to play like that, but that he wrote this way for clearness - so you have accompaniement in one hand and melody/repeated notes in the other hand. he expected people to rearrange it.
on the other hand, I've spoken to pianists who've playded Gaspard a lot who say that they find that it works better to play as written...

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#478741 - 12/19/07 06:31 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
drumour Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 861
Loc: Scotland
I find that, fnork, with the Rachmaninov Dmajor prelude from op 23. I must say that, even with my smallish hands, I haven't wanted to rearrange the Rigaudon much.


John
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#478742 - 12/19/07 06:36 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
fnork Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 1801
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
I understand. Haven't played the piece, just wanted to say that some people chose to do this... with the repeated notes in Scarbo - I also play as written. though it is really hard...

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#478743 - 12/19/07 10:00 AM Re: Ravel: Tombeau de Couperin
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12141
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I'm all for rearranging to make it easier. Who cares what hand you play it with? As long as it sounds good ;\) .
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