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#482139 - 06/03/08 09:49 AM Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
dragonking12345 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 65
I just took a look at the sheet, anyone know how to play the last 4 big measures (joined)?

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#482140 - 06/03/08 10:09 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
dragonking12345 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 65
I meant the chords that are joined together and look impossible to play perfectly sorry

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#482141 - 06/03/08 10:25 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
dragonking12345 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 65
Lol found out by watching performances from others

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#482142 - 06/03/08 10:30 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
Not sure exactly which measures you are referring to, but they are hardly impossible. If you're referring to where it splits into 4 staves, the RH plays the upper two staves and the LH plays the lower two. Use pedal to sustain the low notes. If you are referring to the two places where there are "bracketed" notes, treat the lower notes like grace notes - hit them quickly and then jump to the upper notes (using pedal again to sustain the low ones).
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#482143 - 06/03/08 10:34 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
dragonking12345 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 65
Yes, but the impossible was referring that the four staves are all played together at the same moment. Because of a video on youtube titled Rachmaninoff had Big Hands. They used wooden sticks with bumps for the notes to press down the notes for that part.

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#482144 - 06/03/08 10:47 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
If those are the measure's you meant, then yes - what Rachmaninoff "actually" notated is technically impossible.

But composers sometimes have to walk a fine line between notating things precisely the way they are to be executed, and notating things that musically make sense. In this case, Rach notated what made sense musically, though it cannot be executed as such - you need to treat the lower notes as grace noes.
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#482145 - 06/03/08 12:22 PM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Netherlands
Hi, I'm about to start with this piece. I have another question. Maybe a silly one...

How do you guys feel about playing those chords 'the easy way'?
So not with thumbs overlapping, but this way: with the highest note of the lower bar righthanded and the lowest note of the upper bar lefthanded.... if you get what I mean.
I know this is theoretically not correct, because the original left hand chords are supposed to be 'second voice' I guess... But will this actually be audible?

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#482146 - 06/03/08 12:34 PM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
Before asking that question, are you sure that the way you're proposing is easier? Have you actually tried the interlocking thumbs? They're not hard at all - and they keep both hands playing octaves (though the middle note changes). Seems to me like the way its written is the easier way...
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#482147 - 06/03/08 01:10 PM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18625
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by 8ude:
Before asking that question, are you sure that the way you're proposing is easier? Have you actually tried the interlocking thumbs? They're not hard at all - and they keep both hands playing octaves (though the middle note changes). Seems to me like the way its written is the easier way... [/b]
I agree that playing the chords as written is technically easier and serves the voicing of the chords more appropriately.

Regards,
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BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#482148 - 06/03/08 03:54 PM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Netherlands
Ok you've convinced me. I'll practice how it's supposed to be played. Only seemed a little complicated when I had a quick try at it.

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#482149 - 06/03/08 11:30 PM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
Stick with it - I'd be willing to bet that after you work with it for a little while it will seem very natural. Good luck!
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#482150 - 06/17/08 08:09 PM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Netherlands
It's going quite well. I memorized the chords of the first part in a week or two. \:\)
The middle part is more of a challenge to play uptempo. I could use some help with the fingering. Anyone know of a free sheet version with fingering?
Thanks.

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#482151 - 06/19/08 09:13 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
timbo77 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Singapore
There's another reason for playing the chords as written -- whilst they are played with overlapping thumbs at the outset, when the first theme returns and the piece is scored over four staves, the same chords are used (for the most part, anyway), save that the hands are no longer overlapping. In other words, you don't have to learn different chords for the outer sections of the piece, just different hand placement.

Incidentally, if you search the archives you will probably find the questions about performance of the four staves or the overlapping chords many times over. However, the most challenging part of the piece is something that people rarely mention, namely the cascading chords at the end of the middle section. This requires a good chord technique in order to bring out the descending chromaticisms and the stresses marked in the score. I'm surprised people don't have more questions about this, since if you can play this part, the rest of the piece will not pose any technical hurdles.

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#482152 - 06/19/08 09:31 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
tenders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Westchester, NY
> Rachmaninoff had Big Hands. They used wooden sticks with bumps

This is a great comedic bit. The hapless look of the guy sorting out the sticks is classic.

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#482153 - 06/19/08 11:20 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
pianovirus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 956
Loc: Basel, Switzerland
 Quote:
Originally posted by babama:
The middle part is more of a challenge to play uptempo. I could use some help with the fingering. Anyone know of a free sheet version with fingering?
Thanks. [/b]
babama, I can't help with a version. But if you play the upper voice (which starts chromatically descending) legato with the fingers (only within the individual phrases, not across phrases of course), there should be little choice left for the fingering I would guess. Maybe that helps a bit in sorting it out. Good luck!
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#482154 - 07/04/08 06:44 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Netherlands
Thanks. 'Only' the third part remains now, which definately seems the biggest challenge (for the left hand mostly).

I don't like to rush the middle part, like I see on a lot of youtube recordings. I like to start slow and build in speed and intensity.

I'm very excited I'm actually playing one of my favorite piano pieces, while I haven't even played the piano for a year (only keyboard experience before that).

I have a question about the middle part, how can I time that 'jump' to the low C# (with left hand, the one that's too far apart from the higher B)... should I play it together with the last note of the previous bar (so I can't release pedal) or somehow in between those bars? \:\)

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#482155 - 07/06/08 12:34 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
agent3x Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 147
Loc: United States
Play it at the very beginning of the bar it's written in. Sort of like a grace note, I suppose. You'll just have to be really quick.

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#482156 - 07/06/08 08:59 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
It'll become very natural. HS practice is the way to go!

Matt

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#482157 - 07/08/08 11:16 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Netherlands
Alright. Forgive me but what is 'HS' practice?

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#482158 - 07/08/08 11:26 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
Hands Seperate... one hand at a time. Start this way before trying the hands together.


Matt

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#482159 - 07/08/08 11:52 AM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
babama Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Netherlands
Of course \:\)
Btw you played it very nice on youtube.

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#482160 - 07/08/08 12:21 PM Re: Rachmaninoff Prelude op.3 no.2
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
eh... thanks, I would play it differently now. Some spots are rushed a great deal.

Matt

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