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The sostenuto pedal, which is often the middle pedal if there are three, sustains only those notes that are held when the pedal is pressed; any notes played after are not held. from wikipedia: The sostenuto was first shown at the French Industrial Exposition of 1844 in Paris, by Boisselot and Sons, a Marseille company. French piano builders Alexandre François Debain and Claude Montal built sostenuto mechanisms in 1860 and 1862, respectively. These innovative efforts did not immediately catch on with other piano builders. In 1874, Albert Steinway perfected and patented the sostenuto pedal.[36] He began to advertise it publicly in 1876, and soon the Steinway company was including it on all of their grands and their higher class uprights.[31]
Other American piano builders quickly adopted the sostenuto pedal into their piano design. The sostenuto was never well-received in Europe, however. Even German-made Hamburg Steinways only put the sostenuto on their 9 ft. grands.[31] Today, the sostenuto is on a few more European pianos, but it remains a standard fixture primarily on American-made grands.[37]
The term ‘sostenuto’ is perhaps not the best descriptive term for what this pedal actually does. ‘Sostenuto’ in Italian means "sustaining".[1] This definition alone would make it sound as if the sostenuto pedal accomplishes the same thing as the damper, or "sustaining" pedal. The sostenuto pedal was originally called the "tone-sustaining" pedal.[31] That name would be more accurately descriptive of what the pedal accomplishes.
It is interesting that, of all the pedals that were experimented with on the piano throughout its development, the sostenuto pedal is one that took up permanent residence on the modern grand. Most pianists can go the majority of their playing career without using the pedal; very few compositions actually call for its use. Only a handful of composers, including Debussy, Ravel,[1] Griffes, call for the use of this pedal; the sostenuto still remains the least used pedal of the three on the piano. How often do you use this pedal? Is there music that you feel requires the use of this pedal? I've come across two such passages in a piece that I'm working on, "Baim rebn zu mlave malke" by Milner. For this first passage, I'd use the middle pedal to sustain the bass, while using both hands and the right pedal to phrase the treble. Milner clearly suggested that both hands be used for the treble, where he marks "m.s.", but if I only use the right (damper) pedal, holding it down for 2 bars, then the phrasing becomes too muddy. ![[Linked Image]](http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/3710/90266246tu5.png) For this one, I'd use it just in the third bar: ![[Linked Image]](http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6374/59011629ju5.png) because the chords needs to be staccato, and I can't stretch with my left hand to hold the bass note with my pinky while playing the other two chords.
Sam
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Sam,
Interesting that you would bring this up.
I grew up without a sostenuto pedal.
I have one now, on the MH AA, but still don't use it. Haven't played the piece or felt the need to. At least so far.
So there it sits just begging me to find some reason to make it feel useful!
BTW, in your second example, I still would have used the damper pedal, unless the piece said no ped. Staccatos can be played (and often are) during the damper pedal use.
At one of the piano gatherings, I noticed a fellow member using it during a jazz piece, of all things. I asked him to show us how he was using it when he finished. But I still haven't found the right piece yet (classical inter/adv)
Also - does one use it ALONG with the damper pedal (with the left foot?)
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
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Also - does one use it ALONG with the damper pedal (with the left foot?) Yeah, in my first example I'd use the sostenuto with my left foot and damper with my right. BTW, in your second example, I still would have used the damper pedal, unless the piece said no ped. Staccatos can be played (and often are) during the damper pedal use. That's true, but I think the staccato sound is particularly important in this passage. In that first measure, the right hand is staccato and the left hand legato; but in the second measure it is exactly the opposite, with the right hand legato and the left hand staccato; and then in the third measure both hands are staccato. So I think the staccato sound needs to be very clear in order to bring across those subtleties. Plus, especially since he wrote rests in between those two staccato chords in the third measure, I think using the damper there would give the effect of a quarter note and eighth note, which is a prominent rhythm that he uses elsewhere in the piece.
Sam
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I rarely use it partly because my skill with it is a bit shakey. In Schumann's Etude #2 Opus 13 it is essential on the second page. (Sorry I can't scan it). You are playing 2 lines of music in the left hand: a sustained octave (1/2 notes) of G#'s followed by a line of eighth notes an octave above that. YOu strike the octaves first and use the sustenuto pedal while you move to the eighth notes.
For those of you who do not have a grand piano, you may find your middle pedal works quite differently. I used to have a Baldwin Acrosonic. The middle pedal acted just like the damper pedal but only from A below middle C down. In other words, the middle pedal sustained every note in the lower keyboard that was played for as long as the pedal was held down. This is quite different from a grand which will sustain discrete notes, only ones you play immediately after you press the pedal. I never had a use for the sustenuto pedal on the Baldwin.
I have a Steinway and discovered that it will sustain only the selected note, measure after measure, without having to reset the pedal. I just hold it down through 2 measures and restrike the G# as needed and only that note is sustained.
Best regards,
Deborah
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Originally posted by pianojerome:
[QB] [QUOTE]Also - does one use it ALONG with the damper pedal (with the left foot?) Yeah, in my first example I'd use the sostenuto with my left foot and damper with my right. I have some trouble coordinating this. I have to hit the middle pedal at just the right moment to sustain the notes I want. My left foot is not used to this so sometimes my timing is off. Pianojerome, it looks like you are using the pedal correctly.
Best regards,
Deborah
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Deborah, it's interesting that you mention the Schumman etudes as "essential" use of the sostenuto pedal. He composed them in 1834-1835, and according to wikipedia the sostenuto pedal didn't appear until 1844!
Sam
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I wonder how he held those half notes? With his chin?
Best regards,
Deborah
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Originally posted by gooddog:
I have some trouble coordinating this. I have to hit the middle pedal at just the right moment to sustain the notes I want. My left foot is not used to this so sometimes my timing is off.
Yes, that's exactly the same trouble that I have! Sometimes I'm able to get it perfectly, and other times it doesn't work at all. But after a little bit of practice, it did get much easier. Of course if I had to use it in a different context, I'd probably have to practice the coordination there as well!
Sam
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I use it in transcriptions rather often, but not much in music written for the piano. This makes a lot of sense when you think about it.
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Many years ago a concert pianist guest artist with the Utah Symphony used this pedal. It caught my attention because a certain note had a very clear sustain. I knew it wasn't the damper pedal because too many other notes would have blended with it. I unfortunately don't remember more particulars such as who she was and what she was playing because it was too long ago.
I wished that the pipe organ had a sustenuto pedal. Certain notes, much more frequently in organ pieces than piano pieces, need to be sustained several measures with concurrent inner and outer melodies. Of course there is no such pedal on the organ, so it requires some deft fingering.
Where I find this pedal required is music that imitates vocal ensembles where one voice needs to be sustained while the other voices are clear and separate without blending. I find the best examples for this in the vocal and piano arrangements for operas. My favorite piece for this pedal is in the the first act of "The Marriage of Figaro", the Duet of Figaro and Susanna, "Cinque... Dieci." It becomes a little tricky for me when my timing for hitting the sustenuto pedal does not quite hit the note I want to sustain. But I'm practicing.
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I never use it, but I have seen Earl Wild use it to great effect during the first Chopin ballade.
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Depends on the composer. Rachmaninoff benefits from use of the sostenuto, and occasionally Brahms and Liszt. In Debussy it can be effective if you also use the damper "on and off" and allow the sostenuto to present a note or chord continuing throughout the passage, as written (The Sunken Cathedral comes to mind).
Of course, you give up use of the una corda so you need an instrument with very sensitive touch.
Fazioli 228.
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There are pieces that can use the sostenuto pedal even though they were written before it was invented. That is because the modern piano is not the same as the earlier pianos. They have more sustain, and more interaction between the strings. The sostenuto pedal can keep your playing cleaner.
There are times when holding a bass note or two will provide extra sustain for its harmonics when the damper pedal would make the sound too muddy. It is said Harold Bauer used this effect on the final arpeggio in Chopin's Fantasie.
Nobody pedals Brahms' b-minor Capriccio the way that it is supposed to be pedaled. It is a real finger-buster to play the staccato notes staccato and the legato notes legato. However, if you do, and follow the pedal markings as he wrote them, which is only in the last two bars, the sostenuto pedal may be more appropriate than the damper pedal, especially in the penultimate bar.
The sostenuto pedal may be more appropriate for some sites, like churches, which may have a lot of reverberation. I suggested that to a pianist playing at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco, where there is a very long reverberation. The results were appropriate for the building.
This is something that one should experiment with. There are times when it is the perfect solution, and other times when it is too unwieldy to be practical.
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I have a grand piano with a sostenuto pedal, but I never use it. It is useful in theory but not in practice. Here's why:
When a bass note or chord has its dampers lifted by the sostenuto pedal, I also get sostenuto on any other note which is in the harmonic series of the held notes. For example, if I hit a low octave G and middle-pedal it, then try to finger a C major scale staccato in the RH, the D and the G will continue to ring much longer than the C,E,F,A, and B, due to sympathetic vibration. So, all hope of phrasing and articulation is lost.
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I have used the sostenuto pedal in a number of pieces, mainly by Debussy and Ravel. As has been mentioned, the tricky part is being able to time it so as to capture the right notes. I am most successful when using it prior to starting a piece, such as in Debussy's "Jardins sous la pluie", or in compositions where the composer indicates it - this usually allows you sufficient time to set the pedal. Originally posted by pianojerome: For this one, I'd use it just in the third bar:
I wouldn't use sostenuto there, but would instead play the upper LH notes with the right hand. Organists do this sort of note rebalancing all the time, in order to help expedite a legato touch. Originally posted by BearLake:
I wished that the pipe organ had a sustenuto pedal. Certain notes, much more frequently in organ pieces than piano pieces, need to be sustained several measures with concurrent inner and outer melodies. Of course there is no such pedal on the organ, so it requires some deft fingering. There is indeed a sostenuto on some pipe organs, though it is rather rare. It appears on large orchestral style instruments or some theatre organs. Originally posted by Numerian:
Of course, you give up use of the una corda... Not necessarily. For "Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum" I set the sostenuto with the right side of my left foot, then depress the una corda with the left side of the foot. I then use my right foot on the sustain pedal as normal. It is awkward, but achieveable with a little practice. Organists are perhaps more willing to try unconventional things at the piano.
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I've never been in the habit of using the sostenuto pedal, and have never given it much thought. It hadn't occurred to me to consider it for anything but an obvious pedal point, so it's interesting to learn of other ways in which it might be used creatively. Originally posted by BDB:
It is said Harold Bauer used this effect on the final arpeggio in Chopin's Fantasie. BDB, this comment is very intriguing. Do you have any more specific information? It's not clear to me how (i.e., where) the sostenuto pedal would be used here—but I'd like to try! Steven
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whippen boy
I was hoping that you would offer your opinions.
Where and how do you use it?
Can you give any examples of music that I might try it on?
intermediate/advanced; love romantic music.
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Originally posted by lilylady:
whippen boy
I was hoping that you would offer your opinions.
Where and how do you use it?
Can you give any examples of music that I might try it on? Here is a post where I describe using it for "Jardins sous la pluie". Here I set the sostenuto note prior to the beginning of the piece. In "Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum" look at the section right before the recapitulation; there is a bass line that is sustained, followed by some hand-crossing parts. Because there is plenty of time, I use the sostenuto to sustain the held low note, then proceed to the hand-crossing parts (using the sustain pedal as usual). There are a couple more examples in Debussy and Ravel - wherever there is a held bass note/chord, followed by a lengthy passage of chord changes. This happens also in the C# minor Prelude of Rachmaninoff; where he writes on four staffs I'm tempted to use the sostenuto to hold the bass part while the chords are changing at the upper part of the keyboard.
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Originally posted by whippen boy:
This happens also in the C# minor Prelude of Rachmaninoff; where he writes on four staffs I'm tempted to use the sostenuto to hold the bass part while the chords are changing at the upper part of the keyboard. Doesn't this also happen starting in the very beginning where both the LH and RH play bass notes that are supposed to be held for a few beats, and then they move up to play chords while the bass is supposed to be sustained? I thought this was his subtle way of not writing out the pedaling. I lift the damper pedal where one bass note ends and a new one begins, rather than use the sostenuto. There is also something like this in the beginning Rachmaninoff's Prelude in G minor (Op. 23 no. 5), and I was equally confused.
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The only pieces where I've found it completely necessary are in a few Bach transcriptions (as mentioned earlier), and in Prokofiev's 8th/Barber's sonata.
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