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#486180 - 12/14/04 03:41 PM WTC or WTK?
Beaver Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 257
Well-Tempered Clavier or Well-Tempered Klavier (and other variants). Which is more "correct"?

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#486181 - 12/14/04 04:11 PM Re: WTC or WTK?
jazzyd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/01
Posts: 1861
Loc: United Kingdom
Since 'clavier' is an English word (though not in origin), in translation, I'd say the former.

Personally, I prefer the Babelfish translation:

'The piano well-being-kept at a moderate temperature.'


David
_________________________
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley

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#486182 - 12/14/04 09:30 PM Re: WTC or WTK?
Quidam Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 866
Loc: USA
ha ha ha! gotta love babelfish. You should try typing something in german or spanish or whatever you know and translating it back to english. It's pretty darn funny.
_________________________
Raspberry liqueur, apparently. :p

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#486183 - 12/15/04 04:11 AM Re: WTC or WTK?
jazzyd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/01
Posts: 1861
Loc: United Kingdom
It's not terribly surprising 'The Art of the Joint' was left unfinished...


David
_________________________
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley

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#486184 - 12/15/04 04:52 AM Re: WTC or WTK?
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
I guess it doesn't matter much. My personal preference is of course WTC.

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#486185 - 12/15/04 05:06 AM Re: WTC or WTK?
jazzyd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/01
Posts: 1861
Loc: United Kingdom
I just noticed my first and second posts in this thread are exactly 12 hours apart.

(Slow day at work.)


David
_________________________
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley

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#486186 - 12/15/04 07:58 AM Re: WTC or WTK?
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2052
I'd think Well-Tempered Clavier is more correct than Well-Tempered Klavier. While the true spelling in German is Klavier, "Well-Tempered" is definitely not German. In German, it is "Das Wohltemperirte Klavier".

Does it really matter?
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#486187 - 12/15/04 09:02 AM Re: WTC or WTK?
bachophile Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 742
hey, if bach's publisher, balthazar schmidt of Leipzig,who published bachs works during his lifetime, can spell clavier with a "C", then i think we all can sleep well at night with WTC.



this is of course the goldberg title page but all of the clavierbungs were spelled with a "C".
_________________________
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen

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#486188 - 12/15/04 09:15 AM Re: WTC or WTK?
SoftwareResearch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 283
Loc: Germany
In modern german, it is "Wohltemperiertes Klavier", but in Bach's time it was spelled "Clavier". However, I think the term "Clavier" in that time denotes the set of the three keyboard instruments of that time: clavichord, cembalo, and organ.

Klaus

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#486189 - 12/15/04 01:57 PM Re: WTC or WTK?
Matthew Collett Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 536
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
 Quote:
Originally posted by SoftwareResearch:
In modern german, it is "Wohltemperiertes Klavier", but in Bach's time it was spelled "Clavier". However, I think the term "Clavier" in that time denotes the set of the three keyboard instruments of that time: clavichord, cembalo, and organ.[/b]
Indeed. And so, just to muddy the waters further, an alternative (and arguably more thorough) translation into English is "The Well-Tempered Keyboard" \:\) . I would still prefer WTC to WTK. But in my experience when a short name is wanted in speech rather than writing, it is normally just "The 48".

Best wishes,
Matthew
_________________________
"Passions, violent or not, may never be expressed to the point of revulsion; even in the most frightening situation music must never offend the ear but must even then offer enjoyment, i.e. must always remain music." -- W.A.Mozart

212cm Fazioli: some photos and recordings .
Auckland Catholic Music Schola .

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#486190 - 12/16/04 04:00 AM Re: WTC or WTK?
andrewp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/04
Posts: 494
Loc: united kingdom
whatever you call its fantastic. one of the pinnacles of the keyboard literature...

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