Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Chopin ballade in g

Here's a question I'm not sure I'll be able to adequately articulate without the score in front of me, but here goes. In the section after the first melodic expose of lush full-octave chords when it breaks into fortissmo with the right hand descending arpeggio starting with a third, I cannot find a comfortable fingering. I've tried starting with 4 and 3, which just doesn't give me the power that it seems to need there - maybe my pinky is just too week. So then, I tried 2 and 3, and that seems a little better, but clumsy. Any insights would be appreciated.

I do:

54 (together) then 321 for all of 'em.

I can also see:

43, then 121 as a possibility for people with a small hand.

Then there's always the possibility you're trying to play it too loud. Try practicing a bit at a mf dynamic until it's comfortable, then ramp up the volume.

Also, quarter eighth-eighth quarter is a good rhythm for practicing that run.

Thanks a lot Kreisler. I'm not well versed in this finger terminology. I was referring to my pinky as 4 (thumb as 0) but you've set me straight. I think your point about too loud may be the key. I'll play around with it (no pun intended).

I have a small hand, and I wouldn't find the 121 necessary. What I would prefer to do is compromise the stretch by letting go if necessary, in order to keep the hand balance in line with the note that's being played. (sorry, it's a bit hard to explain)

Let me start again. Perhaps, as Kreisler suggests, you are trying to play too loudly, or perhaps you are trying to extract your tone from the fingers "at a stretch" without support from the arm. Make sure the whole arm goes with your hand when you go up to 5.

Yep...and that's the point of the rhythm I suggested. If you do quarter-eighth-eighth-quarter, the idea is this:

54 (quarter) with support of arm
- move -
321 (eighth-eighth-quarter) with support of arm
- move -
54 (quarter) with support of arm
- move -
321 (e-e-q) with support of arm

Heh...everytime I read starmender's posts, I feel like I'm reading my own writing.

We gotta hang out sometime, Star! Coming to the States anytime soon?

Thank you so much!

I wish.

But you could let me know if you hear of anyone looking for a visiting Matthay/Feldenkrais lecturer!

Hmm...visiting Matthay/Feldenkrais lecturer could be interesting. Send me email with your personal info:

florestan@kreisleriana.com

Thanks, I will. Give me a few days.

I would be interested, too, Star. I have a very dear friend in Berlin, Germany who practices FK.

If I may, my 2 cents (using terminology 1-2-3-4-5, 1=thumb):

The descending arpeggio cascade should be phrased in context. The two loud points are: (1) the peak of the preceeding crescendo and (2) the first third that begins the arpeggio. That's why the rest of the arpeggio has to be much softer, just let go of the dynamic and let the arpeggio run like a snake... (think of string bowing that's attacked ff, then pp) So the arpeggio has to be played fast.

Therefore,

43-121 is bad.
1) Too weak. 43 weaker than 54 for ff.
2) Underturning of thumb in 121 makes it hard to play fast, and hard to play even.

54-321 better. Overturn to get to the next 54-321.
1) Hand stays in same position. More economical. Easier to play fast if you don't shift hand positions.
2) ACCENT the first 54, fortissimo(!), then the fingering allows the rest to be soft and fast.... jjust remember that the 54's don't have to be loud subsequently... (the LH gives you another ff on 4th beat, but I wouldn't accent the RH there. I would let the RH run itself into a long line that ends 4 or maybe 10 bars later)

Makes good sense Buchan. I've started with 5-4-3-2-1 and the rhythms for practice, but your suggestions about the dynamics and snake analogy sound very helpful, too. I'll try to incorporate them.