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#487076 - 05/30/03 12:58 AM You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
pdolce Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 478
Loc: CA.
A friend of mine from Japan said her teacher in Japan told her this. But she didn't elaborate on why she thought this was true. Any thoughts on why would be appreciated.

pdolce \:D
_________________________
But, I played it perfectly at home!!

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#487077 - 05/30/03 01:49 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I think it has to do with two things:

Finger dexterity.

Thinking of the hands independent from each other.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#487078 - 05/30/03 02:00 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
That's , but it doesn't hurt. \:D
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
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#487079 - 05/30/03 03:10 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
benedict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 2519
Loc: European Union
Kreisler,
 Quote:
I think it has to do with two things:

Finger dexterity.

Thinking of the hands independent from each other.
I'd be surprised if that were the reason that Japanese person recommended Bach.

I think it is for the same reason Mozart,Beethoven,Chopin, Schumann went to Bach : inspiration, genius, vision, transcendance and this dialectics of RATIO (construction and INVENTIO (expressivity).

Just my half cent. \:\)
_________________________
Benedict

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#487080 - 05/30/03 08:17 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
Alacandoromos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/30/02
Posts: 38
Hmm..That's kind of weird.

It reminds me of something I read somewhere -- that Baroque music had Jazz elements because figured bass was used.

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#487081 - 05/30/03 09:12 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
Amy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 433
Loc: Upstate New York
My interpretation of that is that the person did not only mean Bach. They meant that you should be classically trained so you have all of the techniques to play the piano regardless if it is classical or jazz.
_________________________
-Amy-
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#487082 - 05/30/03 09:13 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Because you need to get Bach to the basics?

Because the rules need to be learned before they can be Baroquen?

Ok ok I'm sorry. BUT Bach was a fantastic puzzle solver. He seemed to be able to get from chord X to chord Y in however many beats he needed to do it in. This is one of the challenges in jazz as well. And the maxim about learning rules before you can bend them is true.

This is just to add to Kreisler's and Ben's edicts.

Bob

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#487083 - 05/30/03 09:25 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
MikeMcf31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 194
Loc: Northern NJ
I am currently reading a biography on Bill Evans, regarded as on of the greatest jazz pianists ever, and he said this about Bach..
"Bach changed my approach to the piano. I used to use alot of finger technique when I was younger and changed over to a weight technique. Actually if you play Bach and all the voices sing, and sustain the way they should, you can't really play it with the wrong approach. It's going to straighten you out in a hurry...."

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#487084 - 05/30/03 09:56 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
I agree with what Kreisler said about independence of fingers and dexterity. Also, Bach can use a tremendous amount of harmonic variation. The same can be said of a lot of composers, I suppose.
I sometimes think that Baroque music has more in common with jazz than with other classical stylistic periods. Both rely heavily on improvisation, the ensembles are fairly small - at least smaller than a symphony orchestra, and the prevalence of the figured bass in Baroque is similar to the bass and rhythm section of a jazz ensemble providing an anchor and harmonic underpinning to whatever is being played.

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#487085 - 05/30/03 09:59 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Bach so complex, so intricate, so intellectual, so fascinating.... maybe the Japanese teacher thinks if the student would play Bach, he (she) wouldn't want to play jazz. I find I don't.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)

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#487086 - 05/30/03 10:05 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Have you listened to Bill Evans much? He has some wonderfully serene moments.

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#487087 - 05/30/03 10:11 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
MikeMcf31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/02
Posts: 194
Loc: Northern NJ
 Quote:
Originally posted by RKVS1:
Have you listened to Bill Evans much? He has some wonderfully serene moments.[/b]
Yes. I am trying to get more into his work. I was more impressed with his piano work on Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" then I was with Miles horn playing. One of Evans big influences was Nat King COle, who I think is the most underrated jazz pianist ever... his style was so tasteful and sophisticated.

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#487088 - 05/30/03 10:30 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
 Quote:
Originally posted by RKVS1:
Have you listened to Bill Evans much? He has some wonderfully serene moments.[/b]
Seek out the piece that is called "Peace Piece."

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#487089 - 05/30/03 01:33 PM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4111
I think the answer is obvious. No other composer I have tried (Not even Chopin's etudes, since they instill a different type of technique) can match the amount of technique and musical understanding Bach gives you. When I learn a new piece, such as a Beethoven sonata, I am just as interested in the counterpoint (whatever type there is, most likely not strict counterpoint such as in a fugue) and the different things occuring at once as I am in the actual musical result, thanks to Bach's works.

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#487090 - 05/30/03 05:02 PM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
daryl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 49
Loc: new york
I took a few lessons with jaki byard a jazz piano legend ,and the first thing he started me on was bach inventions because of my lack of classical training, no doubt it has helped my technique, but I've fallen in love with some of the scriabin preludes which remind me alot of the way bill evans plays, phrasing and all.
_________________________
"Great talents ripen late;
"The highest notes are hard to hear"

Lao Tzu

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#487091 - 05/30/03 07:09 PM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
Ted2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 790
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I am in a minority as usual. I don't see that you have to play anything in order to play something else. I certainly don't see that it's mandatory to play any of the old masters unless you enjoy their music. I don't play any strictly classical music because I don't like it. I haven't experienced paralytic limitations of technique and creative enjoyment as a consequence. There are many situations like this where somebody nominates something as a prerequsite for something else. Heeding this sort of advice leaves you at the starting line like Achilles with the tortoise.
_________________________
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

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#487092 - 05/30/03 07:50 PM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
HAHA! Love the smiley!

Just relating what a couple of local players have said Bach did for them. \:D

(Of course, knowing these guys, the idea that they're full of it isn't out of the question, either...)

 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
That's , but it doesn't hurt. \:D [/b]
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#487093 - 05/31/03 12:33 AM Re: You must play Bach in order to play jazz....
pdolce Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 478
Loc: CA.
Thank-you all for your replys. They made a lot of sense to me. Especially the figured bass and different voices. We happen to be studying that at the moment in my music fundamentals class.
Thanks again. \:\)

pdolce

P.S. RKVS1, If it ain't Baroque, don't fix it. :rolleyes: \:D
_________________________
But, I played it perfectly at home!!

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