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#491323 - 11/25/07 01:44 PM chopin nocturne in f minor
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
how much faster is the middle section suposed to be? i know its a question of what i like as its my own niterpretation, but i just want a general idea of what people play here!

thanks!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#491324 - 11/25/07 01:52 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
T.S.R. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 231
Loc: Chicago, IL
Not too fast. I generally prefer to play the beginning very slowly. It's a very emotionally charged piece. Then when you get to that sudden break with b-c-c#-g-bb-ab-e-g-f, I make that much more powerful and faster as well.

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#491325 - 11/25/07 03:36 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
I don't toally agree that the opening section is to be played "very slowly". It is, after all Andante, not Largo or Adagio. The left hand accompaniment with its staccato markings (with pedal) suggest, at least, a "walking" tempo.

The middle section is marked più mosso which, as you say, is open to interpretation. I tend to increase the tempo gradually rather than suddenly, and I interpret the f[/b] more initially as a pesante that gradually becomes more and more fluid.

Many (professional) pianists continue to increase the tempo right through to measure 69 - again an interpretive issue.

Theoretically, if Tomasz is talking about measure 48, it's not a C# but a Db in this context.

Regards,
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#491326 - 11/25/07 04:11 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
T.S.R. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 231
Loc: Chicago, IL
Yeah, Bruce, I was just thinking of it really quickly in my head, I wasn't really paying attention to enharmonics, nor did I have the score in front of me.

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#491327 - 11/25/07 04:49 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
I generally play it quite slow, as Bruce D, says, it's at a walking speed, and KEEP IT STEADY I have heard it so many times being sped up at the part Ab Ab Bb even though there's nothing to indicate anything of the sort.

Call it a slow walking speed.

But I don't change the speed as much in the B seciton, but, again as Bruce D says, I play the notes heavily, not so much forte.

I keep the tempo then constant until the two bars before the A section again.
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#491328 - 11/26/07 12:29 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
Robert Kenessy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Enebyberg Sweden
I have a nice tap in function on my metronome. I found out I play the amin sectino 80-84 quarters a minute and the piu mosso 96 at first and after the page turn (two g's) 104. (I know there is no reason for tempo change, my fault).
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Robert Kenessy

.. it seems to me that the inherent nature [of the piano tone] becomes really expressive only by means of the present tendency to use the piano as a percussion instrument - Béla Bartók, early 1927.

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#491329 - 11/26/07 01:29 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Kenessey:
I have a nice tap in function on my metronome. I found out I play the amin sectino 80-84 quarters a minute and the piu mosso 96 at first and after the page turn (two g's) 104. (I know there is no reason for tempo change, my fault). [/b]
Robert :

I don't think that you are alone among those who further increase the tempo starting at measure 57; listen to some recordings of well-known artists who do this. Nor would I consider this, necessarily, a "fault". The very nature of the writing actually encourage this increase where, at measures 65-68, for example, the top voice changes from half notes followed by two groups of eighth-note triplets to half notes that precipitate the line towards the chord and the descending 16ths in measure 69.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#491330 - 11/26/07 03:01 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Chopin's nocturnes are difficult . . . .
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#491331 - 11/26/07 03:58 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12225
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Yes, but oh, so worth the effort!

Hey hopinmad, did you ever read my post on the Ballade? I was wondering how that was going.
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private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#491332 - 11/26/07 05:52 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Have I not replied? I'll check on that now . . . I try to reply to anything that's been said but sometimes I have time to only read and then I forget to come back to it.

I can't help but feel that the nocturnes are pieces to avoid, until great technique is aquired, but then, you would never know when it's good enough will you?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#491333 - 11/26/07 09:18 PM Re: chopin nocturne in f minor
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12225
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Oh my, no! I started my first Chopin on the nocturnes! Never played the Preludes (other than sightreading a few of them), although I'd like to learn the Prelude that's used in Dorian Gray ;\) . Anyways, there are some very accessible nocturnes, as long as you can play rubato and have some emotional maturity.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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