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#498826 - 07/25/08 05:31 PM So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
CherryCoke Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 531
People seem to fight about this as though it's life or death, and everyone on both sides is equally convinced of their own pronounciation.

Pou-LANK (rhymes with "rank" or "stank")

or

Poul-LONGC (rhymes with Long-k or honk)

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#498827 - 07/25/08 05:38 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
The second way.

I wasn't aware of any controversy (or any con TROV er sy, even :p ).

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#498828 - 07/25/08 05:54 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5403
Loc: Orange County, CA
Ha!

In high school, my piano teacher pronounced it Pou-LONGC. Then when I got to college, my professor corrected me by saying POU-lank, which is the way to say a word like "Poulenc" in French.

Then, just last month, I ran into a person who actually knew Francis Poulenc, and he said it's Pou-LONGC.

Don't even get me started on Alberto Ginastera.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#498829 - 07/25/08 06:34 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
jee-nah-STEH-ra.

Tomasino

toe-ma-SEE-no
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#498830 - 07/25/08 07:12 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
When I was just beginning the piano I read "Chopin" as "cho-pin", that is, perfectly phonetically, starting with a "ch" for "ch"ess, so I read it as "choping" with more "in" at the end instead of the "inG".

Now, of course I pronounce it right . . . but when reading (not out loud obviously) I think I still read it as I did before, but am unsure because I can never quite remember once I've read it, and if I read it conciously then I'm too aware to misread it . . . but I think I read it as I did before.

Actually I must do, because I think I say it out loud like that when I'm nervous.


"Hopinmad" does not help!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#498831 - 07/25/08 09:32 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
Poulen... drop the C? Thats how I would pronounce it.

Matt

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#498832 - 07/25/08 10:07 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17804
Loc: Victoria, BC
Final consonants in French words (names) are usually[/b] silent, except for C, R, F, and L.
Some notable exceptions :

Herold
Berlioz
Saint-Saëns
Hahn

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#498833 - 07/25/08 10:17 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Arabesque Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 548
Loc: Japan
Poolonk! with the stress on the lonk.
_________________________
It don't mean a ting if it don't have dat swing

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#498834 - 07/25/08 10:25 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17804
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Arabesque:
Poolonk! with the stress on the lonk. [/b]
The French Larousse dictionary - a good authority - gives the correction pronunciation in the IPA as [pu lɛ~nk], and as closely as I can transliterate it, it is :

Poo lank, accent on the last syllable.

The Petit Robert, Dictionnaire universel des noms propres confirms this pronunciation.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#498835 - 07/25/08 10:48 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Schubertian Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 937
Loc: Dallas, TX, US
It is (IPA: [pulɛ̃k])
where the /ɛ̃/ is a nasalized short e, similar to the e in the english word 'bet' only nasalized

Poo - lenk
_________________________
'Always remember: the higher we fly the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly.""
- Nietzsche

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#498836 - 07/26/08 12:44 AM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Dang, I've been using the wrong vowel! I had assumed that it was the same as in sans or France, when in reality it's the one in cinq (or Chopin!).

I didn't consider that en sometimes goes both ways: vendredi, comprend ... vs. rien, bien, chien. But not usually, n'est-ce pas, Bruce? Isn't it typically represented by in or ain and not by en other than in the combination ien?

I will now Anglicize Poulenc to "poo LANK" rather than "poo LAHNK."

Thanks, you guys. I love both French and phonology!

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#498837 - 07/26/08 05:47 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
In the US, people make a point of Americanizing
French words, indeed do it with a vengence.
Pronouncing French words with authentic
French pronunciation is considered improper
in the US. I've never heard it pronounced,
but by US standards, it would be pronounced
as though it were an English word, thus:
"poo-LENK," or "POO-lenk," with the "len"
pronounced like the "len" in "length."

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#498838 - 07/26/08 05:58 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
I detest the way Chopin is pronounced in the US . . . that accent on the second syllable is horrible!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#498839 - 07/26/08 06:15 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 726
Loc: South Carolina, USA
I'd like to see someone try to type out how to pronounce the distinctive French "k" sound.

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#498840 - 07/26/08 06:30 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by hopinmad:
I detest the way Chopin is pronounced in the US . . . that accent on the second syllable is horrible! [/b]


That's not typical, though it could be regional. I don't think I've ever heard Chopin pronounced in English with the second syllable stressed.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

Top
#498841 - 07/26/08 07:22 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17804
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by hopinmad:
I detest the way Chopin is pronounced in the US . . . that accent on the second syllable is horrible! [/b]
I hope you're not too stressed to learn that in French, names are invariably pronounced with the accent on the last syllable. One could say, then, that Americans pronouncing Chopin's name with the accent on the last syllable are just emulating correct pronunciation.

Cho.pin[/b].
Ra.cine[/b]
Bau.de.laire[/b]
Saint Saëns[/b]
Boil.dieu[/b]
Ra.meau[/b]
Char.pen.tier[/b]
etc.,
etc.,

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#498842 - 07/26/08 07:43 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 726
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Add Bizet and Ravel to Bruce's list.

Honestly, when I hear a person say "SHOW-pan," I immediately think that he or she has no real musical knowledge.

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#498843 - 07/26/08 07:51 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by wdot:
Honestly, when I hear a person say "SHOW-pan," I immediately think that he or she has no real musical knowledge. [/b]
I resemble that remark! ;\) (I give both syllables almost equal weight, actually, with a slight emphasis on the first.)

Do folks in your neck of the woods really say "show-PAN"?

FWIW, it's always worth considering that variations reflect regional differences as easily as educational ones.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#498844 - 07/26/08 07:55 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13757
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Where Americanized French is concerned, my favorite is a small town in Missouri near where I grew up called "Bois d'arc."

Anybody want to guess how we said it in Missouri? \:D
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#498845 - 07/26/08 07:55 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
annifirst Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Texas
The stress on most French words, including names, is more or less equal. If one simply must stress one syllable over another, the last one is the one which receives the stress.

SHOW-pan is not right. But certainly neither is show-PAN, with an obvious accent.
_________________________
annifirst

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#498846 - 07/26/08 08:08 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by annifirst:
SHOW-pan is not right. But certainly neither is show-PAN, with an obvious accent. [/b]
Not right? Neither one is "right" vis-à-vis the French pronunciation; Anglicizations are only approximations, and on that basis I wouldn't call either "not right."

FWIW, Wikipedia confirms that SHOW-pan is dominant in English:
 Quote:
surname pronunciation in English: IPA: /ˈʃoʊpæn/, in French: IPA: [ʃɔpɛ̃]
(The apostrophe denotes primary stress.)

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#498847 - 07/26/08 08:56 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Bosendorfer88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 198
Loc: Montreal
i can't think of anything...how do you say it in missouri?

it's just the way french is structured, there are sounds that are unique to french, especially those nasal sounds like -in or -en
i can't really write how chopin or poulenc are pronounced, i guess bruce's phonetic form is the best (i didn't you spoke french btw)
personally i don't pronounce the c (or k) at the end of poulenc
_________________________
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and upon which it is impossible to remain silent"-Victor Hugo

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#498848 - 07/26/08 09:56 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Kreisler:
Where Americanized French is concerned, my favorite is a small town in Missouri near where I grew up called "Bois d'arc."

Anybody want to guess how we said it in Missouri? \:D [/b]
I don't know about Missouri, but in Texas we pronounce it BOW-dark. It's the name of a tree also called "Horse Apple Tree".
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

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#498849 - 07/26/08 10:07 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Audio pronuncian of Poulenc from Merriam Webster

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixpou01.wav=Poulenc

-----------------------------------------------
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

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#498850 - 07/26/08 10:10 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 726
Loc: South Carolina, USA
I don't think it's regional While I may be a southerner, I promise you that I don't say "Chopin" with a pronounced southern accent. It isn't "show-PAYAN."

Speaking of towns/cities, there are Beaufort, South Carolina, and Beaufort, North Carolina. The first is "Byoo-fort;" the second is "Bow-fort." Accent on the first syllable. Maybe it's another North/South thing. \:D

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#498851 - 07/26/08 10:27 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Auntie Lynn Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 1105
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Fran-swah

Awn-tee Lin

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#498852 - 07/27/08 01:08 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
Plonk!

\:D

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

Top
#498853 - 07/27/08 05:44 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
tenders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 73
Loc: Westchester, NY
DuBois, Pennsylvania is pronounced "DOO boyz."

Yes, I'm sorry, but it is.

Fortunately it's right on Route 80 so you can keep driving past at 65+mph.

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#498854 - 07/28/08 02:29 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
Copake Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 255
Loc: Columbia/Westchester Counties ...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gyro:
In the US, people make a point of Americanizing
French words, indeed do it with a vengence.
Pronouncing French words with authentic
French pronunciation is considered improper
in the US. I've never heard it pronounced,
but by US standards, it would be pronounced
as though it were an English word, thus:
"poo-LENK," or "POO-lenk," with the "len"
pronounced like the "len" in "length." [/b]
Following that practice, and knowing that Chopin's father was French, how would you pronounce "Chopin" in the presence of your musical friends?

Would they double over with laughter?

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#498855 - 07/28/08 07:13 PM Re: So, how do YOU pronounce Poulenc?
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Concerning the previous posts on stressing syllables in "Chopin" . . . even if it's correct in French to accent the second (or last) syllable, it's not done so as strongly as in America. It's said in American in American way (as was mentioned earlier, is fashionable) that gives a much stronger stress on the second syllable.

I give only a slight stress on the first, if any actually, and others I've heard in the area say it the same.

But then, I mean, French words in Welsh accent? Inconceivable!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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