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#499692 - 01/06/08 10:40 PM Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
JonBrom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Am I alone in thinking that "Guitar Hero" is evil and anti-music?

My 23 year-old nephew got it for Christmas, spent all day "playing" it. I looked it over. It is not anything like playing a real guitar, or any musical instrument. It just allows you to think you're making music, but you're not.

I told him I'd give him my acoustic guitar but he said that would be "too hard."

My sister says he might "motivate" him to want to learn a real guitar. I replied that I wouldn't give it to a dim-witted six-year-old.

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#499693 - 01/06/08 10:52 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
Not really, it's a piece of plastic which you mash buttons in rythm to music.

http://www.synthesiagame.com/

Now here is a game I like ;\)

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#499694 - 01/06/08 10:56 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Generally I think it's time better spent learning a real instrument. At the very least it helps you with rhythm.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#499695 - 01/06/08 11:16 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Amaiakuyume Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Australia
In my experience, the people who play and enjoy Guitar Hero were never going to learn a real instrument anyway. They know it's a game and not actual playing of an instrument, and they're doing it because it's fun to them.

Then there are the people who already play an instrument and don't mind to pick up guitar hero every now and again for the simple reason that when you have a group of people together, it IS quite fun.

In conclusion, some people like to play video games and some like to play music and some like to do both, so why should a video game aimed at the people who like video games be considered evil?

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#499696 - 01/06/08 11:18 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Well the whole "evil" thing is just alarmist anyways. I've tried the game at a friend's house but I didn't find it all that fun, it wore off pretty quickly. I hear there's a new game which allow numerous people to play a sort of "band" together. I can see how that would be more fun.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theowne- Piano Videos (Ravel, Debussy, etc) & Original Compositions
音楽は楽しいですね。。。

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#499697 - 01/07/08 12:48 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
JonBrom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
What I think is "evil" is that my nephew and his buds DID think they were making music. But they weren't; they were playing a video arcade game version of "air guitar," nothing more.

Except that anyone playing "air guitar" isn't fooling themselves they are really playing a guitar. It's the false feeling of artistic accomplishment without the hard work, focus, and dedication that evoking music from an instrument demands, that's what's popular about this game. And that's disgusting and disturbing to me.

I played Beethoven's sonatina in G on the piano for my nephew and his friends, showing them how complicated my finger movements were - compared to what you do with the Guitar Hero "guitar" - and remarked how much effort it took to learn to play what is considered a very SIMPLE piano piece, yet it gives me such unalloyed pleasure and satifaction to play it BECAUSE it took such effort.

He and his buds didn't get it, and that's what I find so destructive about this "game."

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#499698 - 01/07/08 05:13 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
AdlerAugen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 200
Loc: Hawaii
they're kids. They won't understand most of what anyone tells them. The most you can do is encourage them in the right direction through various means. Just showing off doesn't do much unless they're already interested.

Now if you train them to think, eventually they'll understand a lot more things in life.
_________________________
-Piano Instructor since 2008-

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#499699 - 01/07/08 05:21 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1916
Loc: Netherlands
Ha, you should give them SingStar, it's awesome!
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No idea what chords you are playing? Reverse Chord Finder Pro will tell you!

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#499700 - 01/07/08 05:59 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
phonehome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 921
Guitar Hero is one of the most fun games I have ever played. I enjoy a lot of the music on the game and it's fun to show off in front of friends at parties and such. I agree with AdlerAugen. They're kids. Of course I find playing the piano a thousand times more rewarding than playing guitar hero. But guitar hero is just really really really really really fun.

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#499701 - 01/07/08 08:10 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
I've never played guitar hero, so I can't rate it.

However, I have played that version of Dance Dance Revolution for the keyboard. I played it for a few years, and was actually really good(able to get quite respectable scores on the hardest songs).

Little did I know that everyone else was using two hands on the keyboard, and also using a much easier keymapping. \:D

I guess that's one of the benefits of playing piano.
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

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#499702 - 01/07/08 08:18 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Muzzzz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 80
Loc: Australia
ahhh i can really relate to both sides of this argument, and depending which way i think about it, it's either evil and destructive or just a load of fun. If people believe that they ARE making music though Guitar Hero, then they need a dose of reality, but i've played it, and it IS a whole lot of fun...

But as musicians, WE know which option (real music vs guitar hero) is more rewarding, can give you a career, is the most open to personal creative input, will unlock the door to a huge and enriching community of like-minded musicians, etc.

Deep down, most people know that real music is far better in just about every way, but whether they can find the motivation to learn a real instrument or not is up to them. It doesn't matter if they can't, they wouldn't have the discipline to become good anyway! \:\)

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#499703 - 01/07/08 09:01 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5429
Loc: Europe
A simple loop can be music as well. I mean take most DJs, who claim that are composers. In the end they are, no matter how insulting it may seem to Beethoven, or his peers... \:D same with guitar hero, etc. There might be a 5% which ends up researching on real isntruments, for the rest it's just a bit of fun.

Not all computer games should be treated like the end of the world, or the begining of something else.

I mean, if you consider guitar hero "evil" what can you say about Doom, Quake, WOW, and whatever else honestly disturbing games (which I love and work on something equally disturbing ones, as a composer) that are out there. At least in guitar hero you end up clicking on buttons and playing some kind of limited music. In luminess you play tetris while changing music slightly, in flow, you... flow while changing the music phrases slightly again.

Art? Well... why not (!)

But it's just a computer game.

Want your nephew to be "inspered"? Take him to a GOOD concert, whether this is Beyonce, or Radiohead, or Argericht! He should be equally impressed! Get him DVDs, or plug him to you tube and the few GOOD videos of classical music that have millions of views! Teach him yourself.

I, for once, have 2 boys, 2 and 4 year old, and they LOVE (adore, or sing along if you want) Madness, Queen, NIN (!), KoRn (!) and the song "you can call me al", along with Shostackovich Symphony no.10, 2nd movement (where they try to conduct along the conductor! \:D ) It's a begining. I hope I won't "break down" (without saying that you did), if I see my kids loving some no good "artist" with a 1 week career, who was illuminated by some crappy reality show in MTV, or worst... ;\) (See? There are SO many worst things out there than guitar hero ;\) )
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#499704 - 01/07/08 04:44 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Lento Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Canada
It is shame to spend all that time not really playing an instrument. I've played it once. If you flip it over you can play it like a 5 note piano and it's a piece of cake \:\)

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#499705 - 01/07/08 06:27 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
hyonchingonchon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 148
music is music. video games are video games. I love both.
_________________________
You can take a noob and train him all day but that'll just make him a trained noob...

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#499706 - 01/08/08 12:27 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
1RC Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 502
Loc: Alberta
I used to play guitar, guitar hero feels odd to me - to be playing something other than the music that comes out. It's weird to be watching these dots that don't represent what I'm hearing.

...and embarrassing to suck so bad on a 5-button stringless guitar after playing a real one for so many years \:D

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#499707 - 01/08/08 09:52 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
My daughter plays guitar hero sometimes at her friends house. She has a blast. She also takes piano lessons, and enjoys them a lot.
She also plays Wii a bit too.

Guitar Hero is just a game. It's not a big deal.

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#499708 - 01/08/08 10:38 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
Guitar Hero is a way to interact with time-honored songs and rock out at the same time. For me, playing Guitar Hero is the closest I'll get to being on a stage with a guitar, shredding for crowds of thousands.

If Guitar Hero inspires people to go take lessons, I take that as a good thing. And it gets people who aren't "serious" (what is serious, anyway?) about music to have fun with it. It's a party game and it brings people together, and I've never met anyone who's said Guitar Hero is making music.

And this is coming from the point of view of a piano teacher.

Bottom line, Guitar Hero is fun. It's easier for pianists and good sightreaders (just like DDR is easier for me than others) but it's *fun*. Don't lord it over others because you can do something more complicated than mashing buttons at the right time. Guitar Hero gets you into the spirit of rock - and I wholeheartedly approve of that.
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#499709 - 01/08/08 12:38 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
captaz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 11
Loc: New York
I think the real frustration over Guitar Hero for musicians is that the game is generally pursued by people convinced that they do not now and never will have any musical ability--when in reality the jump from the game to the real thing is much smaller than they think.

It's also merely reflects a broader social phenomenon--it is far quicker and easier to become a G.H. virtuoso than to gain comparable skill on even the simplest of instruments.
_________________________
"I seek not for power but to pull it down."

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#499710 - 01/08/08 12:55 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
 Quote:
Originally posted by Debussy20:
Not really, it's a piece of plastic which you mash buttons in rythm to music.

http://www.synthesiagame.com/

Now here is a game I like ;\) [/b]
Is that Zelda in the demonstratory video?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#499711 - 01/08/08 09:51 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Loki Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 1035
Loc: Texas
It's a video game and it is meant for people to have fun. At the very least it will teach people hand-eye coordination by hitting buttons and "strumming" in rhythm. The game also requires quite a bit of skill, as shown here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWCi3-whXzE

If people have fun doing something harmless, what's so bad about it? It's certainly an alternative to rocking out on the air guitar.
_________________________
Houston, Texas

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#499712 - 01/09/08 12:34 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
1RC Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 502
Loc: Alberta
JonBrom: I must have missed the part where you mentioned your nephew is 23... That IS evil!

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#499713 - 01/09/08 12:52 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
iconoclast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 389
Loc: Ancramdale, NY
I just got my girls Guitar Hero for Xmas (don't worry they're non-evil and play conventional instruments too) and my take is that it's kinda like comparing Hollywood movies to the books they're based on: it's certainly both more difficult AND rewarding to read the book. But if it introduces people to the book that otherwise wouldn't have read it how can it be bad? If nothing else it's a good introduction to sight reading rhythms (albeit with different notation)

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#499714 - 01/09/08 03:41 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
miaeih Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 267
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by iconoclast:
But if it introduces people to the book that otherwise wouldn't have read it how can it be bad? [/b]
Exactly. I know many classical lovers who think techno, video game, etc renditions of classical music are "evil and anti-music" too. Many people are not familiar with classical music and are surprised that the tunes they hear in these are actually classical music.

Theres nothing wrong with games. Gamer and MMORPG addict here; playing the piano helps with button mashing! I've been told that it's not fair playing against me in multiplayer tetris because piano playing results in fast fingers.

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#499715 - 01/09/08 05:06 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
kissyana Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 199
Loc: Northeast Illinois
I LOVE guitar hero. It's the only game I can win when I play against my boyfriend!

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#499716 - 01/12/08 09:44 PM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
classik51 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 77
Loc: Canada
Never played it, but I've seen a couple guys play it before. I thought it looked pretty enjoyable. Wouldn't it help with the agility of left hand fingers?

I know that people who actually play piano or guitar (instruments that involve fingers) are better at those type of games, so it must mean that it DOES involve some skills, right? It's probably also good for learning rhythm and all that stuff.

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#499717 - 01/13/08 03:23 AM Re: Guitar Hero and Other Anti-Music Video Games
Jared88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Cincinnati
Ohhh man I feel like this topic was tailor made for me lol.

I'm 19 years old and have been playing the piano since I was 4. I'm classically trained and pursuing a music degree...studying the piano of course.

But, I have also played the guitar for 7 years, in which I am also classically trained. But I'll still like to rock out lol.

I have a great appreciation for classical music and it is very sacred to me. Classical piano always has and always will impart the deepest most complex feelings that I just can't express with words. It's amazing.

Unfortunately, most of my friends do not share this passion (sucks for them). Which is fine I mean I honestly don't expect to turn on Chopin or Liszt at a frat party lol.

I'm around Guitar Hero almost every day it seems.
ALL[/b] of my friends play Guitar Hero, or Rock Band (same thing as guitar hero, just with Drums, guitars, and a Mic) and they're all better than me, and NONE of them play guitar or any instrument for that matter. It's funny I can play the songs in the game on an actual guitar, but not on the plastic 5 buttoned counterpart.

I never really had any desire to get better at Guitar Hero because you simply cant shove 21 frets into 5 plastic buttons. It just never felt right to me.

 Quote:
Originally posted by JonBrom:
Except that anyone playing "air guitar" isn't fooling themselves they are really playing a guitar. It's the false feeling of artistic accomplishment without the hard work, focus, and dedication that evoking music from an instrument demands, that's what's popular about this game. And that's disgusting and disturbing to me.

He and his buds didn't get it, and that's what I find so destructive about this "game." [/b]
The purpose of Guitar Hero is to have fun and spend time with your friends. Some people do not have the ability to play a musical instrument but still have the desire to play their favorite monster ballad. I mean doesn't every kid want to be a rockstar?
Guitar Hero and similar games are not meant to cheat or replace the guitar, or diminish music in any way or form. That's just rediculous man. I mean its not like you could land a record deal or play a live show with your 5 buttoned mini stratocaster. That would just be hilarious lol.


JonBrom,[/b]
Its not my wish to offend you but with all due respect, I fail to understand your logic of Guitar Hero being evil[/b] and anti-music.[/b] Don't you think that's a bit irrational? I mean evil is a pretty strong word to use for a video game[/b], especially one with an E rating. I feel that this game promotes music if anything. Thanks to guitar hero, kids are playing, or should I say emulating, songs from the 60's and 70's from some of most monumental and influential bands the world has ever seen. Songs that you grew up with. Honestly if I were a parent, I'd prefer my child to be listening to the Rolling Stones, or Zeppelin instead of some of the crap thats played today.

You want to know whats really Evil[/b] and Anti-Music?[/b] The fact that the art/music programs are being cut from public schools across the US.

Jon, I can see that we both have a passion for classical music. Unfortunately it seems to be diminishing in this day and age. Some people just don't have the ear for classical music. At times it can be too complex for someone who is not experienced with music to fully appreciate it. We hear songs very differently from non-musicians. Oh well, I guess they're missing out.


-Jared
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