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I'm don't know jack about this but I do have a recording of Horowitz playing a Liszt Sonata and Funarailles that absolutely blows me away. So who's good, who's bad? Don't be afraid to trade blows.

I'm the worst.

The Horowitz Funerailles is absolutely astounding, I agree with that. The sonata (I haven't heard it from beginning to end in his interpretation) is a little bit to free for my taste.
It's a SONATA after all. We shouldn't completely leave the classical traditions, should we?

Except it's not a sonata in the "classical tradition" sense.

koji

For the Liszt Sonata, my favourite recording is Richter's undoubtably. Most of his other works I find Cziffra's recordings to be great, I admit I don't have many other recordings of his works other than Cziffras! I have some of Hough's Liszt which is good, especially Années de pèlerinage. And I have Arraus recording of the Transendental Etudes paired with Magaloff playing the Paganini Etudes which is good (the Paganini Etudes are far better)

..And if you think that version is "too free" you should hear his 70's live performances, heh.

koji

Some faves off the top of my head:

Cziffra
Horowitz
Fiorentino
Bolet
Barere
Katsaris
Levy
Berman
Kapell
Gilels
Lipatti
ABM
Ogdon

koji

I also have a recording of Cortot playing Liszt (that "same" sonata) and I wasn't impressed. He sounded anemic.

I've been a Liszt fan for years, and absolutely enjoy Alfred Brendel and Horowitz performances. A benchmark piece for me, particularly, is La Campanella. Although I can only dream of playing it, I have become an aficionado and have numerous recordings of it (Jorge Bolet, Ignaz Friedman, John Ogdon, Paderewski, Kissin, Andre Watts, etc.)

I like the way Andre Watts plays it. Extremely clean and with splendid control. The same for Watts' performance of the Concerto No.1, HR #13 and Totentanz.

My favorite Liszt performer, by far, is Minoru Nojima, on the "Nojima Plays Liszt" cd. (1987 Reference Recordings). His playing of La Campanella is phenomenal and the Mephisto Waltz is in a league by itself. Nojima has established the total command of the pyrotechnical virtuosity, but it is hard to imagine that even Liszt himself could have imbued it with a more diabolical brilliance.

My opinion....

Joel

Try listening to some live Cziffra (not to denigrate Nojima, who is a brilliant technician to be sure).

koji

That's not what I meant

Besides, I said I haven't listened it the whole through.

Some performers I like that come to mind:
Cziffra
Brendel
Barenboim
Horowitz
Richter.
Jorge Bolet is an absolute disappointment for me. Too many changes he makes on his own mind. I don't like that.

What Liszt has Gilels recorded?

La Campanella is what I know.

Sonata (studio and live performances), HR #9, 15--fantastic.

koji

Not really understanding your criticism of Bolet, I'm afraid.

koji

How does he interpret the sonata, Thracozaag?

The live performance from Tully Hall in '75 is one of my top 10 faves.

koji

I can give you an immediate example
Paganini Etude No.3
Concerto No.1
both - various modifications.

What types of modifications? Textual emendations?

koji

Do you own a recording?

Hi Koji,
Gyorgy Cziffra wasn't mentioned by name in my post, but he was in the back of my mind when I wrote "etc." He certainly plays Liszt and Chopin extremely well.

The recordings that I have by him are circa 1963 and do not appear to be live performances, rather studio recordings, and as with any great performer, a live performance truly showcases their skill. I do like Cziffra's rendition of Un Sospiro, among others.

Thanks for mentioning him...

Regards
Joel

I believe the entire recital (which is amazing) was released by some obscure Italian lable, don't know if it's still commercially available, though.

koji

Someone heard the Cziffra Hungarian rhapsodies?

It really is a crying shame that the best Cziffra performances (ie: live ones) are not more readily available. His live renditions of the Dante Sonata, Totentanz, and Spanish Rhapsody, just to name a few are towering and peerless performances.

koji

I personally like Cziffra's transcriptions to HR #16 and 19.

#19 is particularly effective, I agree.

koji

And what about Annees de Pelerinage?
My absolute fave here is Alfred Brendel, but Cziffra's done a nice job too.

Berman and Cziffra. Brendel is well..Brendel.

koji

What's with Brendel?!?!?

I've always found Brendel's playing to be quite odd and inaccessible. He doesn't take enough risks and his Liszt...well it doesn't sound like Liszt.

I cannot agree with that. Brendel's playing is completely opposite to that of Cziffra in means of virtuosity and expression. Please do not misunderstand that. I'm not saying that Cziffra lacks expression, neither that Brendel lacks virtuosity.

I just think that by trying to make the music more 'meaningful and profound', he loses a lot of the original musical value of the compositions...

i haven't heard enough Liszt to make any comments, but i like Hamelin and Berezovski's (from what i saw on youtube), their style especially, very smooth and yet virtuosic.

btw, does anyone know that Cziffra did tend to change notes with Liszt's music (which my teacher told me) as if he's playing his own music?

Again I will have to say Pogorelich (sorry), and Cziffra.

Would you point me and some others to some such occasions where Brendel ignores the score markings, and Cziffra or Berman doesn't, and which make Brendel sound something else than Liszt?

As for my preferred Liszt pianists: Arrau (especially the etudes), Brendel (especially the Annees), Andsnes (the one album of Liszt he's recorded thus far), Fiorentino, early Cziffra... I should check out Bolet, I know the man loved Liszt above all else... PS: If you haven't heard the 3rd Mephisto Waltz, a great work, one of my favourites, you should check out Mark Anderson's Liszt album...

Wow. He misses lots of note, yes, but anemic? The conception is tremendous. I can't decide whether my favorite recording is this one, or Horowitz from the 30s.

I agree with you, Antonius Hamus!
You cover my preferences completely.
Arrau - etudes, Brendel - Annees, Cziffra - Rhapsodies, and also I would add Dmitris Sgouros at the transcriptions (Rigoletto, Reminiscences de Don Juan, etc.).

However, I dislike Bolet due to his various modifications and many times too slow tempi, especially the 3rd Paganini.

My favourite Lisztians, in no particular order: Lortie, Brendel, Szidon, Ogdon, Zimerman, Hough, Misha Dichter, Arnaldo Cohen (purely based on his Liszt recital on Naxos - it's that good), Andsnes (that Liszt album is sublime), and Cziffra (in small doses).

I really hope Andsnes records some more Liszt...

Hear this, Andsnes? We would like you to record more Liszt, please do so (somebody tell him to do so).

Yay for you!
I actually started to write a post saying how i thought Lortie was an all around underestimated player and that his Liszt was especially good, but then i figured i didnt know what i was talking about!

I particularly like his Sonata, its on a cd with the three concert études, all around a great cd, i find.

Interpretation goes far beyond what is written on the score....to me it is the way he actually approaches the piano. I haven't heard all his Liszt, but for example his recording of Au Bord D'une Source is very percussive to me, and he doesn't let the notes melt together (like I think they should, anyway)

Whenever these Liszt threads come up (and they seem to be a perennial favorite here) I'm always astonished at how few people mention Bolet.

Is it because nobody listens to him anymore, or do most people think he is so inferior to all the others? Just curious...

(I'm a lifelong Bolet fan, and a lifelong Liszt fan; put the two together and I'm very satisified)

I also like Bolet's Liszt. I haven't heard the live recordings Koji always recommends but his studio recordings for Decca are all superb.

Another great Lisztian who I don't think has been mentioned is Grigory Ginsburg. The performances on his 'Great Pianists' cd, particularly of the transcriptions, are astonishing. Apart from him, my Liszt list contains pretty usual suspects:

Argerich, Arrau, Barere, Berman (Lazar)

I've just left a message on his guestbook to that effect. It didn't show up yet, but it should do once approved. Feel free to do the same -- you never know, it just might work

http://www.andsnes.com/communityb.php


Yeah, that's the sonata recording I keep going back to - it's near-perfect. The "slow movement" is particularly good, as is the fugato, and... well, all of it.

i can't imagine anyone playing the Listz Sonata better than Argerich

imho

My apologies to Cortot (whom I love for Chopin). It's perhaps the recording itself that's anemic. The sound quality is poor.

My favourites:

Fiorentino
Cziffra (though with the exception of his 'les jeux d'eau his studio recs are disappointing)
Hofmann
Levy
Horowitz (when he was young)
Ginsburg
Arrau (though he is a mixed bag)
Richter (ditto)

Bolet, but his playing as a certain stiffness to it which irritates me, and often he is too slow for my taste (arrau has the same problem).

I disagree with the Arrau statement. He's sometimes even too fast. Try listening to his Études d'exécution transcendante d'après Paganini (1838).

Is this the worst performance of Liszt? By a world famous pianist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrWxzv0OImA

The technique is stunning, about the interpretation is something else...

True.
My te 10 gets a stuning 1.2% correct notes. 8) [/joke]

I've heard Cziffra playing the 6th one, which is amazing. Unfortunately, I have yet to aquire a recoriding of him playing the Liszt sonata - my favorite interpretation is by Martha Argerich

I'm sure Brendel knows more about that than you do. Besides which, many great musicians have said that to become a better interpreter is to learn to read the score better. I don't think Liszt would have bothered to write so much besides the actual notes if it hadn't had any meaning for him. When it came to Beethoven, Liszt certainly was very touchy about deviating from the score.

He uses pedal but keeps it clear. The "percussive" moments are written in the score, though it's true he could be more subtle about it. But, that's his characterization of the piece, and I like it...

Does anyone enjoy Claudio Arrau when it comes to Liszt? He is my favorite playing Liszt simply becuase of the way he expresses the music. Check out him playing the Liszt etudes. Simply phenomenal. Cziffra is great with Liszt, no doubt about it, but often times I think his technique gets in the way of expressing his music. We all know that you must have a great technique for Liszt's music, but with any song you shouldnt let the technique outshine the beauty of the song. Cziffra is a great great player and I enjoy watching him on the vintage videos

"I'm sure Brendel knows more about that than you do."

I don't doubt that! To me he sounds too calculated and doesn't take any risks. I much prefer pianists who live on the 'edge' of their stools, if you like.

"The "percussive" moments are written in the score"

I mean the tone in general. I have played the piece and I prefer it a lot softer than he plays it. That ties in to:

"But, that's his characterization of the piece, and I like it..."

That's what counts really

I disagree. Arrau is really slow on Mazeppa.... like really. Cziffra seems to be very musical and highly emotional.

Arrau is only slightly under the recommended tempi (metronome figures) given in some edition... But I agree that he sounds much too slow at first, at least if you've used to much faster versions.

However, in the no. 2 "Molto vivace", Arrau is almost ten seconds faster than Berezovsky (Arrau 2'13; Berezovsky 2'21). In the no. 8 "Presto furioso", Arrau takes 5'01, Berezovsky 5'00. The conclusion: Arrau could play fast when he needed to. It's true, though, that the older Arrau tended towards slower tempi. However, when Arrau was younger, he played as fast as anybody; it was in his older ager, or perhaps "musical maturity", when he begun to deliberately take slower tempi.

Even in Arrau's older age, he was still no punk!!lol! Maybe he did take a few songs above or below tempo but dont we all at times. Really come on, who wants to be a walking metrenome with Liszt's music. When it comes to that great master all we can do is have a desired or recommended M.M. for performance because Liszt while his melodies were amazingly simple in form, its what he put with him that makes all the music. Take Un Sospiro for example. I have heard that piece played by several different masters Arrau, Cziffra, and Horowitz included all at 3 different tempi, each with their own interpretation but in the end all magnificent and all quite musical. In the end thats all that really matters eh? Im just saying I believe the tempo is far more a matter of personal interpretation when it comes to Liszt than with Mozart or Beethoven...etc.

YES!!the hungarian rhapsodies are hypnotizing almost makes it sound easy doesn't he?
Cziffra is without a doubt one of the best liszt interpreters, i saw a video of him playing Grand Galop Chromatique.....incredible
a critic even said about him that he was Liszt reincarnated, although many argue that his approach is too technical, too mechanical

next is defentiely Horowitz

Cziffra's Grand Galop is incredible, yes, but the pieces he really sounds so natural and Lisztian are of course the Hungarian rhapsodies. It's just because they're all (or almost all) so joyful and full of energy. The technical aspect of the HR's is no matter for Cziffra, and that's the reason he sounds so natural, and even tends to change notes in order to make them more effective.

They are both great players no doubt about it. Actually don't both Arrau and Cziffra come from the Liszt lineage of teachers?

They are both great players no doubt about it. Actually don't both Arrau and Cziffra come from the Liszt lineage of teachers? So if thats true, each of them really carried a piece of the great master. I believe when it comes to pianists of their stature, it is all a matter of preference kind of like comparing a Bosendorfer and Fazioli!

Arrau does... He studied with a Liszt pupil (Martin Krause). Cziffra? Barely... One of his teachers in the Franz Liszt Academy was Ernst von Dohnányi, who had a couple of lessons with Eugen d'Albert (a Liszt pupil).

Correct.

I like Argerich, Kissin, Berezovsky, and Richter primarily. Brendel is only good for Beethoven, IMO. Hough is too calculated, but his Liszt is better than his Rachmaninov. I haven't heard Horowitz or Gilels, yet. Also, I think that Joyce Yang could be an upcoming Lisztian. Her HR 6 and Don Juan Fantasy are amazing.

I haven't read this entire thread, but if Jorge Bolet hasn't been mentioned in regard to Liszt, then I want to mention him. He plays the most transparent Liszt I've ever heard.

Tomasino

And why should Liszt be transparent?

Tomasino, THANK YOU. This is what I have been saying all along! I notice that few people mention him; when I say "Bolet" there is hardly any discussion, other than one or two people who seem uncomplimentary. Then we have pages and pages of discussions about other pianists.

I don't get it...

I agree about the "transparent" description. For me, the transparency comes from Bolet's gentle spirit, shining through the music. It is very heartfelt, very poetic - never empty bravura.

Arrau
Perahia
Li

Mary C, Nice to see someone with Arrau at the top of their Liszt list...lol. I don't think he gets enough credit.

Third-ed

Bolet is, for me, the first pianist who comes to mind with Liszt. He just seems to 'know' how to make the music sound...

His Campanella is not fast, but the tone and sound he produces is superb.
Liebestraume 3 is the BEST I've heard - such control.

No bravura for the sake of it, but each note played in context, and sounded perfectly...

Argerich is my second, as she provides the fire and edge.

Roberto Szidon's HR disc set is worth a listen, as he plays the music as written.

Agustin Anievas recorded the Pag Studies, and a selection of Liszt, a while back, with the HR12 and Studies the crowning glory.

When I first encountered Liszt pieces, I was always looking for the bravura and gymnastics. I seem to have matured, and am now more impressed with the music, not the pyrotechnics...

Perhaps this is why I like Bolet so much...

Hey, I'm gonna order the 9-CD Bolet / Liszt set, and perhaps join the club of three persons (then four, or maybe more)...

Cool

And soon we shall rule the world!!!!!

Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

You will really enjoy his tone... He shows that Liszt doesn't need to be just empty bravura...