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#501145 - 10/02/05 05:45 PM WTC Prelude #3
batmanxxx Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 60
Hey guys, I'm thinking about playing the Prelude in C# Major from the Well-Tempered Clavier Book 1. It is the third prelude, I believe. Well anyway, do you guys have any tips as to how to make learning it easier and any tips on what to keep in mind while learning the piece?

Oh yeah, and another question: the edition I have has specified fingerings for certain notes. Is it really important for me to follow these fingerings or should I just do what is comfortable?

Thanks for everything. =)

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#501146 - 10/02/05 07:03 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
It's a straightforward piece. Quite easy to read and memorize as well. Really it needs to be played fast. This would really be the only problem I could see having; The notes are easy to play. remember the rule of thumb would be to play the longer note values detache. practive slowly at first. use common sense for the fingering. No magic or tips to learn it faster. Just old fashioned practice. Have fun. Great piece.
_________________________
JOHN

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#501147 - 10/02/05 10:45 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
Yeah, it's a pretty straightforward prelude to learn. I would stick with the written fingerings to start. If after you've tried them you have better ones for your hand, then go with yours, but its a good idea to try out the marked fingering first as it usually has good insights as to what would work well for certain passages.

The fugue is great too if you want to try it. It's not as easy as the prelude, but it is managable and quite enjoyable to play.

Also, make sure you have a good edition (i.e. not the Czerny edition by Schirmer). There are so many mistakes in the Czerny edition it's not even funny. To my knowledge, the C# p&f doesn't have too many "mistakes" in it, but I know of lots of mistakes in other preludes/fugues. Everyone has their own preference on editions. Urtext and Kalmus are both good. Basically stay away from the Schirmer-Czerny edition and you'll be alright.
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#501148 - 10/03/05 12:50 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
Palindrome Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3910
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by 8ude:
Yeah, it's a pretty straightforward prelude to learn. I would stick with the written fingerings to start. If after you've tried them you have better ones for your hand, then go with yours, but its a good idea to try out the marked fingering first as it usually has good insights as to what would work well for certain passages.

The fugue is great too if you want to try it. It's not as easy as the prelude, but it is managable and quite enjoyable to play.

Also, make sure you have a good edition (i.e. not the Czerny edition by Schirmer). There are so many mistakes in the Czerny edition it's not even funny. To my knowledge, the C# p&f doesn't have too many "mistakes" in it, but I know of lots of mistakes in other preludes/fugues. Everyone has their own preference on editions. Urtext and Kalmus are both good. Basically stay away from the Schirmer-Czerny edition and you'll be alright.

--------------------
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.
[/b]
It's ironic that you should make those comments (with which I agree) over your signature quote. The Czerny edition is supposedly taken from the score as Beethoven knew it, with expression marks notated by Czerny from Beethoven's own playing of WTC I and II!
_________________________
There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians

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#501149 - 10/03/05 01:02 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
Yeah, I find that comment interesting as well. \:\)
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#501150 - 10/04/05 02:43 AM Re: WTC Prelude #3
batmanxxx Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 60
errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rawrrrrrrrr

hey, im a little bit into the prelude now and i'm having some confusion with some little symbols that appear in front of random notes. throughout the song, there are little four-pointed stars in front of some notes, and i have no idea what to do with these. i asked around and nobody seems to know the answer. it might be something made up by the editor, but i would still like to know what the heck it is. i don't know what edition i have by the way because i just got the sheet music from the "classical sheet music archive." i'll put the link to the sheet music so you guys can see what i'm talking. it first appears in measure 14 and then appears at random times later in the song...errrr, it totally bugsssssss

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/pre_fug3.pdf

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#501151 - 10/04/05 09:56 AM Re: WTC Prelude #3
8ude Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2050
They're double-sharps - simply sharp the note in question twice. How far did you ask around? They're not at all uncommon, so I find it interesting that nobody could tell you that. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that the sheet music archive's version is the dreaded Czerny-Schirmer edition, so you may want to invest and get a better copy.
_________________________
What you are is an accident of birth. What I am, I am through my own efforts. There have been a thousand princes and there will be a thousand more. There is one Beethoven.

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#501152 - 10/04/05 11:40 AM Re: WTC Prelude #3
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
I don't know if SMA's WTC is the czerny (never seen czerny's), but I do know that it sucks!
 Quote:
Originally posted by 8ude:
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that the sheet music archive's version is the dreaded Czerny-Schirmer edition, so you may want to invest and get a better copy. [/b]
_________________________
JOHN

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#501153 - 10/04/05 08:21 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
batmanxxx Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 60
I'm not understanding the whole idea of "double sharps."

Let's use the double-sharped F in measure 14.

Ok, the key signature already sharps the F, so do I double-sharp the F# and make it a G#???

Or, do I just double-sharp an F-natural and make it a G-natural?

I'm thinking that the double-sharped F in measure 14 would be a G-natural.


Why don't they just move the note up instead of having to bother with double sharps..hehe

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#501154 - 10/04/05 10:28 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
 Quote:
Originally posted by brucexbatman:
Let's use the double-sharped F in measure 14. Ok, the key signature already sharps the F, so do I double-sharp the F# and make it a G#???
[/b]
No, When you see a double sharp you sharp the note twice regardless of the key signature. so here you would start on f natural, sharp it twice to play a g natural. Think about it, if you were to start on F# and sharp it twice then you'd be on G#, which is already in the key signature of C#major, and there would be no reason for any accidental indications. There would just be the note g there.
_________________________
JOHN

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#501155 - 10/04/05 10:55 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
It doesn't need to be played fast so much as with precision and attention paid to the voicings. It is a dance piece but, like all Bach, has a definite lyrical quality.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#501156 - 10/05/05 12:24 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
It doesn't need to be played fast so much as with precision and attention paid to the voicings. [/b]
Uhhh...to get the effect of this piece it needs to be played allegro at least. Playing with precision is a given.
_________________________
JOHN

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#501157 - 10/05/05 10:54 PM Re: WTC Prelude #3
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Did you think I play it largo? Or maybe I scooch it up a bit to andante? :rolleyes:
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#501158 - 10/15/05 12:55 AM Re: WTC Prelude #3
Horace Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 505
Stay well away from the version on Sheet Music Archive, it has some notes from an older version of the piece, which Bach later updated.

Regarding tempo, I think it is possible to bring out this piece's beauty at something as slow as slightly less than 4 eighth notes per second. But the slower you go, the more exact your articulation and phrasing has to be. I've never been able to bring off the whole piece slowly as well as I'd like, but here's a faster recording from a few days ago in case anybody's interested. (I just learned this piece.)

C# Major prelude WTC 1

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#501159 - 10/15/05 01:37 AM Re: WTC Prelude #3
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
That is a very nice recording, Horace. The tempo is just fine.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#501160 - 10/15/05 02:27 AM Re: WTC Prelude #3
bach enthusiast Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 847
Loc: Tucson Arizona
Actually Horace I listened to your playing of this piece a couple weeks ago in the member recording forum, and it sounded well on it's way.

I'll listen to your new one later cause I'm on dial-up and you know how that goes.

I hope nobody took me as a tempo-nazi in my last post. I shouldn't have been so obtuse. After all I myself hate it when people mandate that certain pieces be played at only one range of tempo. Kinda became what I hate there.

Take the piece as you please. My bad.
_________________________
JOHN

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