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Originally posted by lol_nl: And what if ONLY looking at the teaching skills there, so how good the professors are etc.?
It's very personal. Professor X may be a really great professor, but if you don't get along with him, he's the worst professor in the world for you. Professor Y may be considered a really great professor, but if he's very dogmatic about his interpretations, and you have very different interpretations, then you aren't going to benefit from him as much as you could from a more leniant professor. Professor Z may teach at a school that is not even on this list, but if he really bonds with the student, and he has a way of explaining things that is perfectly clear to the student, and he knows how to assign pieces well and explain different ways of practicing that are suitable for this particular student, then actually he may be the best teacher for this student, or at least much better than those teachers at Juilliard, Curtis, etc.
The professors are people, just as the students are people. It's really important (I think) that the professor and the student are a right match for each other.
(I also think that it is a little naive to think that there are a handful of professors who are better than the (I'm guessing this number) hundreds of thousands of other piano teachers around the country, just because they teach at Juilliard or Curtis. In fact, there are many, many, many good teachers who don't teach at those two schools, who may be just as "good" in general, and who may even be, for a particular student, "better".)
I had a discussion with Ann Schein once where she mentioned that she only works with students who are already technically and musically proficient. She said she does that because she doesn't know how to teach those who aren't. Some teachers are good at getting students from S to W - that's Ann Schein. But if you're at J, then it takes a completely different kind of teacher to get you to S.
Unfortunately, the teachers who do best at building technique and musicality tend to be less known than teachers who are more comfortable refining it.
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)
I would like to clarify my earlier post -- I was in a hurry and so didn't really edit it properly. I didn't mean to say that one had to *know* all of the Chopin Etudes, but I think those who end up at Julliard or one of the other top schools have probably studied all or most of them at some point in their years at the piano.
Someone said Curtis is the most prestigious in the world even beyond Juilliard but from my experience I have known of several people transferring from Curtis to Juilliard but never the opposite way around. This seemed to suggest to me that Juilliard is #1 but I don't know, maybe it just has that reputation from being in NYC.
I mean don't get me wrong both are probably #1 and #2 in my opinion and I have heard horror stories about entrance to Curtis, for example they do call backs and sometimes you have to audition as many as 3 times, but I just think that Juilliard is still considered/viewed by most as the epitome of musical conservatories in the world.
Yea definitely all of those top schools like Oberlin, NEC, Peabody etc are all highly prestigious and its not to put anything bad on them but it was just my 2 cents worth that from m personal experience from talking to accomplished pianists over the years that Juilliard seems to be king, I have lurked for a while here and I think the guy Koji Attwood who posts here himself went to Curtis and then transferred to Juilliard where he is still studying.
Originally posted by Heretic: Someone said Curtis is the most prestigious in the world even beyond Juilliard but from my experience I have known of several people transferring from Curtis to Juilliard but never the opposite way around. This seemed to suggest to me that Juilliard is #1 but I don't know, maybe it just has that reputation from being in NYC.
Curtis is more selective than Juilliard. The lack of pianists "transferring" from Juilliard to Curtis can be explained by the fact that Curtis tends to admit younger students and has no graduate program in piano.
Interesting fact about Juilliard: as much as people complain about the place, no one seems to leave voluntarily. Undergrad pianists auditioning for Masters programs, or graduate pianists auditioning for DMA programs, they all stayed at the Jailyard if they were accepted. I can only think of one exception (a woman who switched to Peabody for her Masters to study with Fleisher) out of 20 or 30 cases. Also, as far I could tell, it seemed rare for a student accepted at Juilliard to be rejected by another North American conservatory (except Curtis).
But none of that really matters. Here's the important point: it's extremely unhealthy to worry about prestige when you're selecting a school. So many students obsess over it; they feel they need that validation from a famous and selective institution, to prove their worth to themselves and others. It's easy to empathize with this attitude, given the competitive realities of the profession, but it can be very harmful if it prevents the student from making good choices. Over the long run, the esteem of alma mater doesn't matter. Don't worry about which school is "best." Ignore rankings. Find the combination of instructor, environment, cost, location and student body that is most conducive to your personal and professional growth. Easier said than done, of course. Good luck.
http://www.musicinst.org This is where my son studies the piano -- and this is the moment to say thank you to Kreisler who recommended a teacher there. We are more than happy. (BTW Kreisler, I tried to thank you personally but your PM box was full and rejected my message.)
Lemon you're actually absolutely right...I forgot about 3 important things:
1. Curtis does not accept applicants over age 21 I believe it is? That means every single person in Curtis must be under that age
2. Curtis has no graduate program and
3. Juilliard's graduate program is FREE (as far as I know) which means I assume it's natural for someone to transfer from Curtis (free) after they're done with their undergrad to Juilliard Grad School (free) for a fully free education of the highest order. I am assuming that is what Koji did...
I would like to share a music conservatory/university where if you get accepted as a music performance major and therefore are probably awarded a nominal scholarship, you get in-state tuition, even if you are not a resident of that state. It is University of North Texas, which has one of the top music schools in the country.
Heretic- careful with the word 'transfer-' I know what you really mean, but transferring usually refers to leaving in the middle of a degree, a few years into it, and finishing somewhere else, whereas Koji I believe just got a degree at Curtis and then went to Juilliard for graduate work.
oh yes, Heretic. Opus 119 is my fav. Univ. of North Texas is not easy to get into. I think it depends on what major you are. They are No. 1 in Jazz in the country. But their classical music dept. is also very well respected and they have some great teachers. It is a huge school -- around 1,600 music majors! Yikes. So always something to listen to or a group to play in. My violinist son is most likely going to attend there, and he'll be paying what a Texas native pays. Pretty good deal!
My Keyboards: Estonia L-190, Roland RD88, Yamaha P-80, Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880, Antique Pump Organ, 1850 concertina, 3 other digital pianos ------------------------- My original piece on BandCamp: https://frankbaxtermrpianoworld.bandcamp.com/releases
Me banging out some tunes in the Estonia piano booth at the NAMM show...
