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#512679 - 12/03/07 01:20 PM diplomas
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
ive never really known what exactly gaining a diploma . . .

requires
can do for you later
involves


any information at all will help me get a clearer view of what it means! Thanks!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#512680 - 12/03/07 01:25 PM Re: diplomas
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Haiku?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#512681 - 12/03/07 01:40 PM Re: diplomas
vanityx3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 269
 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
Haiku? [/b]
Haha, hmm, if so then the syllables are wrong.
I think a haiku is 5 syllable line, 7 syllable line, 5 syllable line. This is 3, 5, 3.
_________________________
well I'm 20 years old, and I'm teaching myself piano.

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#512682 - 12/03/07 01:43 PM Re: diplomas
hopinmad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
this is 3 6 2 actually but OFF TOPIC!
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#512683 - 12/03/07 01:46 PM Re: diplomas
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Alright you got me! But it IS poetic.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#512684 - 12/03/07 02:00 PM Re: diplomas
hopinmad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
can you enlighten me on diplomas?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#512685 - 12/03/07 02:17 PM Re: diplomas
keyboardklutz Offline
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Well grasshopper, depends on whether teaching or performance. I've got a DipABRSM in performance and am working (on and off) toward the next one. I played Beet op54, Chopin Berceuse, Bach P&F bkII in Gm and some Messiaen. Also had to sight-read, write a program and there's a viva. For the next one I'm doing K533, 2 etudes, a P&F and some Messiaen.

The only use it has for me is to validate my teaching. I also have a B Mus, PGCE, and so many hours private pedagogue training. It may give you something to aim towards.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#512686 - 12/03/07 02:26 PM Re: diplomas
hopinmad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
what do yuou mean when you say 'your next one'?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#512687 - 12/03/07 02:32 PM Re: diplomas
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
LRCM followed by FRCM. You can send away for the syllabus. I'm not sure if it's on the net.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#512688 - 12/03/07 03:14 PM Re: diplomas
BruceD Offline
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17674
Loc: Victoria, BC
On the 'net :

ABRSM

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#512689 - 12/03/07 03:21 PM Re: diplomas
keyboardklutz Offline
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Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Bruce that's just to grade 8.
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#512690 - 12/03/07 03:25 PM Re: diplomas
BruceD Offline
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Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17674
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
Bruce that's just to grade 8. [/b]
OK, then :

ABRSM diploma

There you've got it all : ABRSM, LRSM, FRSM.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony
Writing from Paris until 15 May, 2014

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#512691 - 12/03/07 03:31 PM Re: diplomas
keyboardklutz Offline
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Thanks Bruce, I always thought it was there somewhere. I find it a pretty hard-to-navigate website.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#512692 - 12/03/07 03:52 PM Re: diplomas
pianist.ame Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1164
Loc: Singapore
it depends where...

in canada it's deemed pretty useless because almost all the musicians have a Masters or Doctorate degree.

whereas in singapore a piano dip from canada is looked upon as something much more useful. I myself intend to return to singapore to complete my music education

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#512693 - 12/03/07 05:16 PM Re: diplomas
hopinmad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
is there point attempting one without a grade 8 distinction?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#512694 - 12/03/07 05:24 PM Re: diplomas
pianist.ame Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1164
Loc: Singapore
hmm...I guess you could go for it

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#512695 - 12/03/07 05:26 PM Re: diplomas
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
i didnt say i didnt have

although i dont . .

will it not be looked upon as a hopeless case?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#512696 - 12/03/07 05:31 PM Re: diplomas
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
kk:
I've got a DipABRSM in performance and am working (on and off) toward the next one. I played Beet op54...

Snap \:\) . Though unfortunately it was the work that I played the least satisfactorily on the day :rolleyes: .

Chopin Berceuse, Bach P&F bkII in Gm and some Messiaen.

Schumann Novellette #1, Bach P&F BkII in E, some Hindemith Ludus Tonalis and Copland Cat & Mouse.

Also had to sight-read, write a program and there's a viva.

I was very glad that these sections carried 40% of the overall mark, in order to bring up my final percentage, given that I managed only a fairly pedestrian pass in the recital section, so 13/15 and 21/25 was very welcome indeed. If one can sight-read basic piano music fluently, have a good musical/piano general knowledge, can do elementary research and write/speak reasonably confidently, then these are marks for old rope. They undoubtedly favour more 'mature' candidates like myself[1], and I can of course see how these sections might be intimidating to a musically-gifted (but perhaps academically-weak and shy/tongue-tied) teenager.

For the next one I'm doing K533, 2 etudes, a P&F and some Messiaen.

I passed the DipABRSM this summer, and don't intend taking the LRSM until at least winter 2009, perhaps later. I started working seriously towards the first diploma only 8 months before (and some 26 years after Grade 8), and was not really fully prepared. Although this is just a hobby for me (though a fairly absorbing one) the pressure and nerves I felt on the day (as well as struggling with a fairly horrible piano) brought into sharp relief my lack of in-depth confidence in my playing, and this was especially obvious in the Beethoven.

So I don't intend to make the same mistakes with the next one, and the preparation will take as long as it takes... I am currently working through Beethoven Op10#3, three of the Rach Preludes, Hindemith 2nd Sonata, as well as (re)working Bach P&F BkII F# minor and Debussy Reflets dans l'eau, all of which by happy coincidence ( \:\) ) happen to be on the LRSM repertoire list. Out of these (with no doubt a few changes of heart between now and then) I would look to cobble together the 40 minute recital. All that said, I might never end up taking the exam and just continue learning new music as the fancy takes me, using such ABRSM lists as a basic guide.

-Michael B.
[1] An Olde Fahrte with university qualifications (albeit not music-related), so not afraid of executing and presenting a bit of research in written form, and who has played music for many years in various settings (church, choral societies, recitals, etc), and who has been interviewed, and interviewed others, in professional situations on countless occasions over the years.
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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#512697 - 12/03/07 05:40 PM Re: diplomas
pianist.ame Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1164
Loc: Singapore
it should'nt be looked upon as a hopeless case

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#512698 - 12/03/07 05:55 PM Re: diplomas
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
hopinmad:
Is there point attempting one without a grade 8 distinction?[/b]

For DipABRSM entry the prerequisite is a pass at ABRSM Grade 8 (no distinction specified), or one of the following accepted substitutes:

* Appropriate professional experience[1].
* Grade 8 Practical from Guildhall School of Music & Drama, London College of Music & Media, Dublin Institute of Technology, Australian Music Examination Board or University of South Africa; Grade 9 Practical from Royal Conservatory of Music, Toronto
* Grade 8 Practical from Trinity College London or Royal Irish Academy (with ABRSM Grade 5 Theory or equivalent from any of the boards listed in this table)
* ATCL or ALCM Performer’s Certificates from Trinity College, London or Guildhall School of Music & Drama (with ABRSM Grade 5 Theory or equivalent from any of the boards listed in this table)
* CPD Training Strategy, Module 1, from Royal Air Force Music Services
* TEQA 1 from Royal Military School of Music, Kneller Hall
* M2 from Royal Marines School of Music
* BMus (Hons) from Royal Academy of Music or Royal College of Music (successful completion of all course units for the first year)
* BMus (Hons) or BA (Music) from Royal Northern College of Music (successful completion of all course units for the first year)
* BEd (Music), BA (Musical Studies) or BMus (Performance) from Royal Scottish Academy of Music & Drama (successful completion of the first year)

[1] This includes a "signed declaration from an independent person of appropriate standing (for example, a course director/supervisor/tutor, a musical director, orchestral manager, head teacher or other education professional)"


If you can't provide any of the above then the ABRSM won't accept your entry. My advice would be to prepare for and take the ABRSM Grade 8 exam in any case; it certainly won't be a waste of time and it will be good experience. Then you can think about what to do next. However, one should be aware that the marking criteria are a lot tougher at diploma level compared to the practical graded exams. Reportedly about half of those entering for the first diploma within 2 years or less of passing Grade 8, fail the DipABRSM the first time round.

On a final note, I may be wrong but your questions in this thread and elsewhere suggest to me that you don't currently have a teacher. If this indeed the case, I would strongly recommend finding the best one you can afford if you wish to prepare for any such exams and have the best chance of succeeding. It is hard enough as it is, without making the task even more difficult.... and good luck! \:\)

-Michael B.
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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#512699 - 12/04/07 02:26 AM Re: diplomas
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX, It was some years ago now. I sometimes regret allowing op54 to slip from my brain. I really fell in love with it.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#512700 - 12/04/07 03:08 AM Re: diplomas
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1171
Loc: Cornwall, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by Amelialw:
in canada it's deemed pretty useless because almost all the musicians have a Masters or Doctorate degree.[/b]
which are roughly equivalent to ABRSM's grades 6 and 7 repectively, aren't they ;\)

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#512701 - 12/04/07 04:34 AM Re: diplomas
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5007
Loc: Europe
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX: If you know. I e-mailed over the weekend (yes, I do this a lot. Everyone is having a weekend and I'm e-mailing people) to check if there is something equivelant to the diploma that I have, which I got from Greece.

Any ideas on that, cause I would like to know where I stand (if I start playing again that is...) in uk standards...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#512702 - 12/04/07 04:44 AM Re: diplomas
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nikolas:
Any ideas on that, cause I would like to know where I stand (if I start playing again that is...) in uk standards... [/b]
I would contact ABRSM directly. Follow BruceD's link.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#512703 - 12/04/07 01:08 PM Re: diplomas
hopinmad Offline
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Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Posttenebrslux - I have a teacher, but not one that teaches preparation for diplomas.
Also I have sat my grade 8 exam, but passed with merit only. My pieces, scales, arpeggios and sight reading, were all distinctive however.
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#512704 - 12/04/07 08:11 PM Re: diplomas
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
hopinmad:
Also I have sat my grade 8 exam, but passed with merit only. My pieces, scales, arpeggios and sight reading, were all distinctive however.[/b]

Bad day on the aural tests, perhaps? Personally I wouldn't worry about that too much, if your marks were strong in the pieces and the sight-reading, which are main components taken forward and developed at DipABRSM level. As mentioned before, there is no requirement for a distinction, and I would wager that it is probably fairly irrelevant, given the quite different nature and approach of the diploma exam itself. In the same way as good A level grades do not necessarily predict a decent class university degree, I would doubt there is that much of a correlation between distinction grade 8 candidates and passing the DipABRSM. Of much higher importance is the quantity, and moreover, the quality of the work and critical preparation you devote to your piano studies after Grade 8 in order to approach the DipABRSM requirements.

As an aside, my teacher had no real knowledge of the ABRSM before I mentioned it; he is a piano performance/pedagogy masters graduate of the Konservatorium Musikschule in Zürich (mother-tongue German and Romansch, though we communicate in French), so the programme notes, viva voce and sight-reading preliminary work was all down to me. That said, I firmly believe that all his knowledge, teaching/communication skills and wealth of piano-playing experience were/are certainly sufficient for the job(s) in hand. Just remember that it is not just about playing the right notes (though that certainly helps!), but also about performing in a professional context with a certain degree of artistic integrity, plus quite searching musical discussion and communication, all in a way which is quite a big leap from what is required at Grade 8.

So just because a teacher has never prepared a pupil for this exam before doesn't mean s/he is not capable of doing it successfully. Though of course it might be a safer bet to find one who has more experience of the various issues that students encounter when attempting such a project.

Bon courage! \:\)

EDIT: I would strongly suggest you post something in the Piano Teachers Forum, to get a wider and clearer perspective on these issues from music professionals, rather than the personal opinions of someone who spends most of the day counting other people's money for a living ;\) .

Michael B.
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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#512705 - 12/05/07 01:25 PM Re: diplomas
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Thanks for your advice; it gives me a a much better picture of the what the Diploma asks for.

Not really a bad day on the aural tests, just bad!

It was more a factor of lacking a Grade 8 distinction would 'sound bad' if you know what I mean.
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Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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