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#522549 10/19/08 01:58 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Loki:
Again, it really does not make a difference what term exactly is used, as long as the other person understands the idea. "Playing" might be problematic because then telling someone to play a line would have more than one meaning.
Could you name two?

#522550 10/19/08 06:54 AM
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The OP has been told to bring out the top notes, and is asking how to physically make that happen. Morodiene has suggested playing the top notes (melodic line) alone, and then gradually bringing in the other notes lightly in order to get that control, until the right contrast can be found.

Semantics would not seem to help the OP with the physical task of bringing out the top notes, which is the difficulty being addressed. Are there other approaches out there? It is a question that also interests me.

#522551 10/19/08 07:58 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by keystring:
Semantics would not seem to help the OP with the physical task of bringing out the top notes,
You know that do you?

#522552 10/19/08 08:44 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
[b]
Also if you want to bring out the top note you have to lean and then listen in that order. If you listen first it's too late to lean since the chord has already been played.
Gotcha! How do you know where to lean if you haven't heard it? How do you shoot a dear if you haven't seen it?

The Harvard my dictionary? [/b]
You know where to "lean" (which note to bring out)by understanding the score. Depending on the piece and one's skill you might have to *look* at the keys or might not have to.

You certainly don't have to hear the note you want to bring out before playing it. In fact you can't hear it until after you've played it. By listening to it after you play it and with practice, you learn how to voice chords in the way you desire.

IMHO your analogy is incorrect.

#522553 10/19/08 08:49 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:

You certainly don't have to hear the note you want to bring out before playing it.
Yes you do.

#522554 10/19/08 09:15 AM
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Hmm, my advice: let's not argue over a word. If people use it, it is valid. If they do not, that doesn't make it invalid, just unknown to them. This argument, like keystring pointed out, is over semantics and really doesn't help the OP (or anyone else for that matter). I agree with Loki, the name of what you do doesn't matter, as long as the meaning is conveyed. You could call it "icing the cake" for all I care! Mmm...that's sounds yummy. :p


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#522555 10/19/08 09:17 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
[b]
You certainly don't have to hear the note you want to bring out before playing it.
Yes you do. [/b]
Here I do agree with kbk. When someone sings, they must hear the sound they are going to make before making it. That way the vocal cords know where to go to create a pitch. The same goes for "singing" a line in piano (or voicing, whatever terminology you prefer). You must first anticipate the sound you wish to make in order to make it. Otherwise your "listening" is no different than that of an audience: there's nothing you can do about the sound once you've made it.


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#522556 10/19/08 09:21 AM
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From Wiki:

* Homophonic

multiple voices of which one, the melody, stands out prominently and the others form a background of harmonic accompaniment. If all the parts have much the same rhythm, the homophonic texture can also be described as homorhythmic.

I believe that (texture) is what the OP wishes to achieve.

#522557 10/19/08 09:38 AM
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Those who have played la fille before might need to be reminded that the sans lourdeur octave passage (m24-27) is marked pp and p.

Please folk ... play these octaves pp and then advise on how it’s possible with a RH full hand stretch ... to apportion extra weight to the pinkie within the pp dynamics range ... and curb the powerful lower stretched thumb ... to a speculative ppp .

Who came up with this rot?

In my book the chords are a structural entity and must be played (complete with inner note) as a gently held compound sound.

la fille aux cheveux de lin

#522558 10/19/08 09:42 AM
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Since the ultimate aim is to play music, the question remains ........ technically speaking, HOW. As per kbk's definition. This would appear to be what the OP's teacher has asked him to do. He is asking how to do it.

#522559 10/19/08 09:43 AM
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I dig the crescendo in bar 25! Not to mention the decrescendo in bar 23.

#522560 10/19/08 09:46 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Morodiene:
Quote
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
[b]
You certainly don't have to hear the note you want to bring out before playing it.
Yes you do. [/b]
Here I do agree with kbk. When someone sings, they must hear the sound they are going to make before making it. That way the vocal cords know where to go to create a pitch. The same goes for "singing" a line in piano (or voicing, whatever terminology you prefer). You must first anticipate the sound you wish to make in order to make it. Otherwise your "listening" is no different than that of an audience: there's nothing you can do about the sound once you've made it. [/b]
In all my posts I have been talking about *literally* hearing it not hearing it your head(which you should do). Perhaps keyboardklutz meant the same thing but that was not the way I understood his posts.

#522561 10/19/08 09:49 AM
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I have news for you - all hearing happens in the head.

#522562 10/19/08 09:50 AM
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You're watching pigeons again.

#522563 10/19/08 09:50 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
Quote
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
[b]
You certainly don't have to hear the note you want to bring out before playing it.
Yes you do. [/b]
In all my posts I have been talking about literally hearing the note not hearing it your head. Your original post about this used the word "listen". Perhaps you should have used "hear" or "hear in your head".

#522564 10/19/08 09:53 AM
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I'm always watching pigeons. (don't'cha know)

#522565 10/19/08 09:54 AM
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There is a difference between listening and hearing...but it is not a distinction many make. You can listen "for" something (anticipation), or listen "to" (a more passive action). The latter is what I equate hearing with.


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#522566 10/19/08 09:56 AM
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You hear what you want to hear.

#522567 10/19/08 10:12 AM
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How:

Physically use your finger to pull the note. This is a subtle extra bit of effort which one can practice through exaggeration. Try simply playing a 4-note (or 5 if you can reach it!) C major chord repeatedly, bringing out an arpeggio line. It looks something like this; the lower-case notes are soft, while the capital letter is quite pronounced:

Cegc
cEgc
ceGc
cegC
ceGc
cEgc
Cegc
(and so on)

In practice, one should exaggerate the pulling motion quite a bit - this may feel unnatural at first, but when you come upon a nicely voiced chord, you'll get the idea of what I'm trying to say, physically speaking. smile

With practice, the motion becomes very subtle (this is like beginners and thumb-under; it looks and feels awkward, but when the "pros" play it's barely noticeable).

It is also important to note that it is most difficult to voice the top and bottom of a chord or interval that is the complete limit of your stretching capability. I stretch 10ths in each hand; 10ths required much focused practice before I could voice them, while the ability to voice octaves came much more naturally. If your largest stretch is an octave, this may prove quite difficult.

What to call it:
"Voicing" comes from polyphonic music, in fact. In a four-part chorale, there are four voices singing at once. The "terracing of voices" has been condensed into "voicing." Voicing in this sense is a term used frequently in the piano world.

Furthermore, you can stop by the piano technicians' forum and ask them about voicing. They will tell you that piano voicing is the regulation of the sound each key makes such that every key when pressed has a tone and volume similar to that of the keys near it.

Then there's orchestral voicing, which can be done as a combination of note distribution and instrumental choices. And then there's voicing in composition, which is somewhat close to the jazz definition, but still distinct.

Hope that cleared up a thing or two.

- Silence

#522568 10/19/08 10:21 AM
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Thank you, Moridiene and Silent Omen, for your helpful, informative and practical posts.

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