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#523906 - 02/01/09 09:54 AM traumerei question
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2629
Loc: Maine
I've been going back to some of the pieces I learned a number of years ago and approaching them again now that I'm playing a little better. In Traumerei I had always played measures 15-17, (this is not counting repeats) 20-21 and 24 with pedal. I notice there is no pedal written in for these measures (in my score anyway) and I'm wondering if that's really how it should be played?
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
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#523907 - 02/01/09 11:48 AM Re: traumerei question
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13818
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Schumann is notorious for his pedal markings, often writing "Pedal" at the beginning of the score and giving no more help whatsoever!

In the case of Traumerei, some editions have no pedaling marked, others simply put "Ped." at the more important cadences.

It's perfectly reasonable to pedal the passages you mentioned, and every performance I've heard has used pedal throughout the piece (clearing the sound, of course, with the harmonies.)

I hope that helps some!

(Still have your art hanging on the wall, by the way, on display in our new house!)
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#523908 - 02/01/09 01:36 PM Re: traumerei question
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
My pedaling for Träumerei is so personal I could not begin to describe it unless in person. But you should definitely pedal all the way through. Schumann, as Kreisler has pointed out, was ambiguous with his pedal indications.

I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to turn it into a blur. Pedal carefully; your ears will tell you what it right. \:\)
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#523909 - 02/01/09 07:56 PM Re: traumerei question
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2629
Loc: Maine
Thanks. I guess my intuition was right. My left side of the brain kept going "No, it says don't pedal!!" \:\)

Kreisler, glad you still like the work...
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#523910 - 02/01/09 08:03 PM Re: traumerei question
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Good luck with your repertoire review! ;\)
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#523911 - 02/02/09 03:22 AM Re: traumerei question
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Hi Peyton,
With your mention of Traumerei, couldn’t resist having a quick bleat.

For what it’s worth, here is a copy of the IMSLP PS Urtext which shows a few more indications of pedal than sparsely mentioned by Kreisler.

traumerei

It is worth noting that Schumann’s classical discipline demands splitting the full 24 measures into groups of 4 measures (akin the tidiness of a Bard sonnet) .

But highlighting the final 16 measures (as suggested by you) , the pedal comes in AT THE START of each of the 4 measure note patterns,
with an additional "gun" to the 3 glorious closing ritardando measures.

Wish I could start dreaming ... but with all the rain we have had
recently ... the Fates have decided that I’ve got to mow the lawn!!

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#523912 - 02/02/09 11:43 AM Re: traumerei question
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2629
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi Peyton,
With your mention of Traumerei, couldn’t resist having a quick bleat.

For what it’s worth, here is a copy of the IMSLP PS Urtext which shows a few more indications of pedal than sparsely mentioned by Kreisler.

traumerei

It is worth noting that Schumann’s classical discipline demands splitting the full 24 measures into groups of 4 measures (akin the tidiness of a Bard sonnet) .

But highlighting the final 16 measures (as suggested by you) , the pedal comes in AT THE START of each of the 4 measure note patterns,
with an additional "gun" to the 3 glorious closing ritardando measures.

Wish I could start dreaming ... but with all the rain we have had
recently ... the Fates have decided that I’ve got to mow the lawn!! [/b]
btb, thanks. You have always been a big help to me in the past.

Wow, that text has even less pedal indications than mine. Why does he put "pedal on" and no pedal off? I guess I don't understand the point of even putting in Led and then nothing for 12 measures? Is it just another way of saying "pedal at your own discretion? \:\)

When you say "It is worth noting that Schumann’s classical discipline demands splitting the full 24 measures into groups of 4 measures....But highlighting the final 16 measures (as suggested by you) , the pedal comes in AT THE START of each of the 4 measure note patterns,
with an additional "gun" to the 3 glorious closing ritardando measures." I'm sure you don't mean pedal for four full measures with no realease?
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#523913 - 02/02/09 12:05 PM Re: traumerei question
GreenRain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 888
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
Pedal markings on score should always be ignored.

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#523914 - 02/02/09 01:24 PM Re: traumerei question
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18291
Loc: Victoria, BC
Peyton :

Also keep in mind that the sustain of every piano is different. While Schumann (et al.) may have been sparse with pedal indications, that doesn't mean his pedal indications should be followed slavishly; even a "completely pedaled" score would have to be ajudsted to the sustain of the individual piano and the acoustics of the venue in which that piano is being played.

If you know the style of the period of the piece you are playing, the best guide to pedal use is your own ear.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#523915 - 02/02/09 02:48 PM Re: traumerei question
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
On the money Peyton ... pedal means the introduction as such ... but I go along with BruceD with the recommendation to use your ear for the right mix.

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