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#525611 - 12/16/07 05:20 AM Re: Is listening to a piece before learning it cheating?
blueweed Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Singapore
I will listen intently to harder pieces that I know I CANNOT possibly learn off the rack for 1-2months at least, this helps me to conjure enough courage to give me a headstart by removing all doubts and fears of not able to play the piece.

I use this method to pieces that I really like and really want to learn. I do not think it is cheating to listen because the exhilaration you experience when you play is different from the listening experience.

of course I have hit a couple brick walls before ie chopin etude 10/4(tough!) but I will quickly back away from those pieces to avoid further denial.

I passed the grade 3 exam when I was 13years old. I picked up piano again 18months ago at the age of 31years old with no playing of piano in between all these years. But with determination and constant listening to pieces that I want to play & with an able teacher I managed to put a good amount of pieces under my wing.

I have completed chopin's fanatsia impromptu 1 month ago and am working on 10/3 etude. I thought I couldn't have done it without constant listening...I still want to get back on 10/4 etude one day though....that I must say listening alone didn't help LOL !

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#525612 - 12/16/07 06:02 AM Re: Is listening to a piece before learning it cheating?
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5276
Loc: Europe
 Quote:
Originally posted by Despina:
Just wanted to agree with Jerry about :

"I have to add, for me playing classical music is in no way a form of self-expression, but rather a quest to skillfully, accurately, and artfully let the music speak for itself - to play the notes in just the right way that brings out their inherent beauty and power."

Thank you, you gave me the english words for something that I've been trying to say in greek!

Despina [/b]
Geia sou Despina! Ellinas ki ego! ;\)

I would have to mention that, although a composer, I find really important for the pianist, and any performer to have their own personality, which will be brought out in the concert, or studio, or wherever. If I needed just "something" to get the beauty of my works (what beauty??!?!?!!?? \:D ) I would constantly be using my samples and not live players. Now that I'm eaherly waiting from somebody to record a DIFFICULT piece of music, my instruction were rather like this:

"1. DON'T take into account the mp3 I made with samples! DON'T
2. Do WHATEVER you want and THEN check with me. Sure follow the score but bring out what YOU feel is needed from the score"
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#525613 - 12/16/07 06:24 AM Re: Is listening to a piece before learning it cheating?
drumour Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/05
Posts: 860
Loc: Scotland
I'm with Despina and JerryS88 on this one - and I agree entirely with JerryS88's views on this. No-one is saying that a performer's personality shouldn't come through in their performance, but, to my mind, it is too big a step to place (as some do here) the performer (oneself!) on a par with the composer. I find irritating the posts which glibly assign characters to pieces of music - you feel that this way of hearing a piece won't change ever in that person's life. This approach short changes the performer and the audience. A musician's relationship with music should be a richer one of discovery and learning not of ego. When you come to think of it, a lot of the "teaching" described or alluded to on this forum is just about that. Interpretations (that grand word) are "discussed" in ways that reinforce the difference between the student and the master.

Humility in the presence of masters. (Perhaps then fewer people would think it fine to dip into world of Bach "for technique".)


John
_________________________
Vasa inania multum strepunt.

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#525614 - 12/16/07 06:25 AM Re: Is listening to a piece before learning it cheating?
Ned Gerhart Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 25
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
I don't think it's cheating. It can be very helpful - not everyone is a completely cerebral player who can read music like a book. Do you think this sort of playback of a tune, with a scrolling cursor, would be helpful? http://www.nedgerhart.com/flash/CandlesInTheMoonlight.html If so, somebody ought to put together a site with more typical piano lesson music recorded as "flash" video like this.

Ned

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#525615 - 12/16/07 07:16 AM Re: Is listening to a piece before learning it cheating?
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5276
Loc: Europe
 Quote:
Originally posted by drumour:
I'm with Despina and JerryS88 on this one - and I agree entirely with JerryS88's views on this. No-one is saying that a performer's personality shouldn't come through in their performance, but, to my mind, it is too big a step to place (as some do here) the performer (oneself!) on a par with the composer. I find irritating the posts which glibly assign characters to pieces of music - you feel that this way of hearing a piece won't change ever in that person's life. [/b]
John,

I wasn't aware that we are talking about SUCH personalities and egos! I was merely talking about the fact that each performer is different and this should show in the performance, not that a performer should equal themselves to a composer.

Hope my commens are clearer...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#525616 - 12/16/07 01:58 PM Re: Is listening to a piece before learning it cheating?
Jared88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Cincinnati
I'm a horrible sight reader, the worst in my theory class to be exact. But I'm very fortunate to have perfect pitch.

I've had piano lessons since 4 years old, but I never liked reading music so I learned pieces by listening to them and reading the music a few times until i memorized it. Its takes a while but I guess everyone learns differently.

My teacher thinks this is how I developed perfect pitch. I also have a pretty decent tonal memory which helps alot with harmonic dictation.

I've also noticed a correlation with pitch and improvisation. The better the improviser, the better there pitch is. which really makes perfect sense if you think about it.


Unfortunately now I'm getting to the point where I have to be able to sight read with exams and what not...I wish I could look at a complicated score for the first time and go through the entire piece.

to those of you that can...thats very impressive.
_________________________
88 keys + 10 fingers + 2 hands + the score > 1 set of eyes








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#525617 - 12/19/07 10:31 AM Re: Is listening to a piece before learning it cheating?
HouseHead78 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 276
Loc: Austin, TX
I listen to a piece before I learn it - that's really how I figure out what I want to play. However I try to listen to several different pianists' interpretations. Once you hear a couple of different ways it is played, I think your mind opens up to more possibilities. This is my experience, at least.

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