Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
143 registered (ajames, 36251, accordeur, 41 invisible), 1624 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#527619 - 08/17/03 12:42 PM Re: Ballad No. 1 Op. 23 (Chopin)
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5330
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by Kreisler:
And why do you think everyone wants to play Rach 3? It's easy to understand musically - or at least much more so than the Brahms concerti (which nobody seems to ask about.) This is why everyone asks to play it. [/b]
It's also the reason why everyone is asked to play it (or #2). If a orchestra asks a pianist for Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Liszt, Chopin, or Prokofiev, in 5 months, the pianist will likely do it. However, if they ask for either of the Brahms, the pianist is more likely to look at their schedule and say "I don't think I have enough time."
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#527620 - 08/17/03 08:30 PM Re: Ballad No. 1 Op. 23 (Chopin)
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
pianoloverus,

 Quote:
The meanings of words can change and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years(due to it's overwhelming usage by young people) the word "song" will be an acceptable(according to the dictionary definition) synonym for what you and I would call "piece".
I doubt it! Not as long as there are caring people around to point out the inaccuracy of using the word 'song' for a piece that is not a 'song'.


 Quote:
There is little enough interest in classical music already and I think this constant need on some people's part to correct those who use the word "song" just turns more people off to classical music.
You are factually wrong on the first point, interest in classical music is not down. And IMO you are also wrong on the second point. I think anyone interested in classical music is going to be eager to learn the correct lingo and will be thankful that someone had the consideration to further their learning.

When I was in high school band, our music director, Mr. Rondinoni, would NOT let us get away with using the word 'song' if it was not appropriate. I'm quite glad he did this.

Why bastardize the language?
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

Top
#527621 - 08/18/03 07:40 AM Re: Ballad No. 1 Op. 23 (Chopin)
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19640
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bernard:
pianoloverus,

 Quote:
The meanings of words can change and I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years(due to it's overwhelming usage by young people) the word "song" will be an acceptable(according to the dictionary definition) synonym for what you and I would call "piece".
I doubt it! Not as long as there are caring people around to point out the inaccuracy of using the word 'song' for a piece that is not a 'song'.


 Quote:
There is little enough interest in classical music already and I think this constant need on some people's part to correct those who use the word "song" just turns more people off to classical music.
You are factually wrong on the first point, interest in classical music is not down. And IMO you are also wrong on the second point. I think anyone interested in classical music is going to be eager to learn the correct lingo and will be thankful that someone had the consideration to further their learning.

[/b]
(1) Since the way people use a word can easily determine it's accepted(dictionary) meaning (and most young people today use 'song' for what you call 'piece'), it's seems likely that "song' and 'piece' will soon be interchangable.

(2)I'm not at all sure that most people who correct other people's use of the word 'song' do it because they are "caring". I think they are sometimes annoyed(as I was in the beginning) because it sounds so wrong or silly to their ears.

(3)I did not say interest in classical music is down(although it probably is), I said there is "little enough interest in classical music" which is definitely true. I don't have the exact figure, but I've read numerous time that around 10%(I think the figure is actually less) of the population listens to classical music on any sort of a regular basis. The audiences at the concerts I regularly attend is getting older and older(with the exceptions of the younger Asians). And to the best of my knowledge, sales of classical recordings are down(although I'm not postitive of this one).

Top
#527622 - 08/18/03 07:08 PM Re: Ballad No. 1 Op. 23 (Chopin)
Krazypaul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 133
Just out of curiousity, what would be an average age or "level"(in terms of years of experience if that would be more precise) of a pianist when he/she would play or even attempt the hungarian rhapsodies?

Top
#527623 - 08/19/03 07:27 PM Re: Ballad No. 1 Op. 23 (Chopin)
Krazypaul Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 133
I guess no one knows or have an idea?

Top
#527624 - 08/19/03 11:32 PM Re: Ballad No. 1 Op. 23 (Chopin)
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Krazypaul, I'm sorry I have no idea.

pianoloverus,
 Quote:
(1) Since the way people use a word can easily determine it's accepted(dictionary) meaning (and most young people today use 'song' for what you call 'piece'), it's seems likely that "song' and 'piece' will soon be interchangable.

(2)I'm not at all sure that most people who correct other people's use of the word 'song' do it because they are "caring". I think they are sometimes annoyed(as I was in the beginning) because it sounds so wrong or silly to their ears.

(3)I did not say interest in classical music is down(although it probably is), I said there is "little enough interest in classical music" which is definitely true. I don't have the exact figure, but I've read numerous time that around 10%(I think the figure is actually less) of the population listens to classical music on any sort of a regular basis. The audiences at the concerts I regularly attend is getting older and older(with the exceptions of the younger Asians). And to the best of my knowledge, sales of classical recordings are down(although I'm not postitive of this one).
(1) I don't recall society ever giving the young a right to redefine words--it's not so simple as that. Your students could just as well decide that an ellipse is close enough to a circle and start calling it that!

(2) It sounds wrong to my ears because it is wrong. True, we sometimes react stronger, but all in all, speaking for myself, I correct this usage because 1) I care very much for music and 2) I care that young (and older) people learn the proper terminology that goes with learning the art.

(3) Question is, has the percentage of people who listen to classical music ever been much greater than it is now? I don't know the answer, but I don't think so. I do not think low attendance at concerts is a reflection of people's interest in classical music. I think it is more probably a reflection of the hideous cost of a ticket. As big a music lover as I am, I do not go to the NY Philharmonic very often. It is prohibitively expensive... another issue, another topic for another thread.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

Top
#527625 - 08/20/03 03:52 PM Re: Ballad No. 1 Op. 23 (Chopin)
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19640
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bernard:
pianoloverus,
 Quote:
(1) Since the way people use a word can easily determine it's accepted(dictionary) meaning (and most young people today use 'song' for what you call 'piece'), it's seems likely that "song' and 'piece' will soon be interchangable.

(2)I'm not at all sure that most people who correct other people's use of the word 'song' do it because they are "caring". I think they are sometimes annoyed(as I was in the beginning) because it sounds so wrong or silly to their ears.

(3)I did not say interest in classical music is down(although it probably is), I said there is "little enough interest in classical music" which is definitely true. I don't have the exact figure, but I've read numerous time that around 10%(I think the figure is actually less) of the population listens to classical music on any sort of a regular basis. The audiences at the concerts I regularly attend is getting older and older(with the exceptions of the younger Asians). And to the best of my knowledge, sales of classical recordings are down(although I'm not postitive of this one).
(1) I don't recall society ever giving the young a right to redefine words--it's not so simple as that. Your students could just as well decide that an ellipse is close enough to a circle and start calling it that!

(2) It sounds wrong to my ears because it is wrong. True, we sometimes react stronger, but all in all, speaking for myself, I correct this usage because 1) I care very much for music and 2) I care that young (and older) people learn the proper terminology that goes with learning the art.

(3) Question is, has the percentage of people who listen to classical music ever been much greater than it is now? I don't know the answer, but I don't think so. I do not think low attendance at concerts is a reflection of people's interest in classical music. I think it is more probably a reflection of the hideous cost of a ticket. As big a music lover as I am, I do not go to the NY Philharmonic very often. It is prohibitively expensive... another issue, another topic for another thread. [/b]
(1)It's not a question of rights or young people. It's simply that usage can determine meaning, so if a word is used a certain way it may take on that meaning.

(2) I never said that that using "song" as a synonym for "piece" was correct. I think it is far more important to make sure the small number of teenagers who are interested in classical music are not turned off by being too quick to correct them. Together, the music teacher at my school(who I mentioned as using "song'in my original post) and I have 50 years experience working with teenagers.

(3)The question was whether or not a very small % of the entire population is interested in classical music. The answer is yes. I don't doubt your motivation is genuine but why risk making it smaller?

Top
#527626 - 08/20/03 04:23 PM Re: Ballad No. 1 Op. 23 (Chopin)
Orlando Gibbons Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 848
Loc: CA
(1) :rolleyes:

(2)

(3)
_________________________
"See?! The Cliffs of Insanity!"

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
- > Gift Ideas for Music Lovers < -
From PianoSupplies.com a division of Piano World.
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Schaff Bros baby grand piano $300
by Paul678
30 minutes 8 seconds ago
What to Practice, Given My Goal
by st23
Today at 09:11 AM
Roland V Combo VR-09 Question
by contented
Today at 09:11 AM
Rachmoninoff Piano Concertos
by RED SHIFT1
Today at 08:48 AM
I just bought a Casio PX-780
by Rozzok
Today at 07:54 AM
Forum Stats
77354 Members
42 Forums
159984 Topics
2349400 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission