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#533737 - 09/27/02 06:51 PM Chopin Scherzo #1
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4063
I have changed my audition/recital program around a bit, and I am now learning the first Chopin Scherzo. How is this piece usually viewed by the juries at schools? Chopin sure repeats a lot in this piece, is there a particular reason this is so? I find that it is technically difficult, but not too bad since it fits my hands well. Horowitz seems to play the chromatic scale at the end of this piece in octaves, how common is this practice? Any comments on this piece is appreciated!
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#533738 - 09/27/02 09:33 PM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
StanSteel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 646
Loc: Los Angeles
For me this piece is the equivalent of putting my hands under a lawnmower. \:D

You should read page 212 of Huneker's famous book, Chopin: The Man and his music.

Here's some of it:

QUOTE:
"""
The first Scherzo is a fair model. There are a few bars of introduction - the porch, as Niecks would call it - a principal subject, a trio, a short working-out section, a skilful return to the opening theme, and an elaborate coda. [...]
The interior is romantic, is modern, personal, but the facade shows gleaming minarets, the strangely builded shapes of the Orient. This B minor Scherzo has the acid note of sorrow and revolt, yet the complex figuration never wavers. The walls stand firm despite the hurricane blowing through and around them. [...]
The first pages are filled with wrathful sounds, there is much tossing of hands and cries to heaven, calling down its fire and brimstone.[...]
He may have outlined the composition in a moment of great ebullition, a time of soul laceration arising from a cat scratch or a quarrel with Maurice Sand in the garden over the possession of the goat cart. [...]
This scherzo might profit by being played without the repeats.
"""
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#533739 - 09/28/02 07:43 AM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 14722
Loc: New York City
I remember hearing a master class with Fialkowska several years ago at Mannes where the student performed this piece. The only thing I remember Fialkowska saying was that it was important to play(both soundwise and visually for the audience) the two opening chord in a way that clearly demonstrated the intensity and emotional essence of this piece. I think she said something about it starting out more violently than almost any other Chopin work. She also spoke about the problems of not making the piece sound too repetitive. Also, I've heard(but have no personal experience with this) that playing the closing chromatic scale in interlocking octaves is actually easier than playing it separately with each hand.

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#533740 - 09/28/02 10:03 AM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1587
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
Also, I've heard(but have no personal experience with this) that playing the closing chromatic scale in interlocking octaves is actually easier than playing it separately with each hand.[/b]
It ain't easier for me! A few pianists, mostly old school, have substituted interlocking octaves for scales. In addition to Horowitz, Jean Marie Darre and Ruth Laredo come to mind.
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The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
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#533741 - 09/28/02 10:13 AM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4063
Would a jury disapprove of changing the text like this? The interlocking octaves make it interesting I think, but maybe just playing it as written gives the sound more time to thin out (Since it won't be in thick octaves) and allow the ending to sound more powerful?
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#533742 - 09/28/02 11:32 AM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1587
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
A jury would definitely frown on a textual change on that level. They would probably think whoever put interlocking octaves into Chopin's Scherzo No. 1 was be a "Horowitz clone." You could probably get away with making changes to a Liszt Rhapsody (such as your own cadenza to HR#2), but to make major textual changes in Chopin is a no-no these days.
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Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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#533743 - 09/28/02 12:50 PM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
I think it would pretty impressive if you could play the scale at tempo *with* all of the accents intact. It can be dramatic enought without having to resort to interlocking octaves. Don't forget that there are many other pianists who certainly have the technique to play interlocking octaves here but instead choose to play it as written.

Ryan

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#533744 - 09/28/02 01:31 PM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
the artist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 757
Loc: Tulsa, OK
I'm not sure what you all mean by "interlocking octaves". Is this just referring to octaves with both hands simultaneously instead of the written 2-hand octave? - Or something else?

_Brad

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#533745 - 09/28/02 05:35 PM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
CrashTest Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/23/01
Posts: 4063
Chopin MM mark indicates it to be played at 120 beats to the dotted half. This seems a bit too fast, almost makes one rush, doesn't it? What is the general MM speed range one should stay in while playing this piece?
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#533746 - 09/29/02 12:20 PM Re: Chopin Scherzo #1
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1587
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Don't forget than when Chopin wrote this piece, pianos had much lighter actions and fast velocity was easier to attain.
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Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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