Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Can I be an Athletic Pianist? Or do I have to become frail to be good?

Hey all, sorry long time no post but recent troubles in my studies have led me back to the forum to ask:

Are we pianist doomed to a fate of lanky body type? Can we as musicians balance musical health / well being, and demands of a physical training routine?

I'm talking as a young person. For me and how my world looks around me I feel a great need to work out. To get that 'idea' of what the perfect body is. I'm not talking huge muscles etc or something on that level. But I do like to keep myself in good shape with a regular work out routine ie) lifting weights on upper and lower body with cardio thrown in there. Although not as often as it should be.

I used to go to the gym every other day and it was mostly comprised of 50 minutes - 1hour of lifting heavy weights in hope to increase my muscle mass. But recent events of strain on the muscles in my right forearm and pains in my wrist and elbow has made my routine come to a complete stop. I did go and see a doctor and it's not carpal tunnel syndrome, I had my nerves tested and everything looked fine. I just had put to much strain on the muscles in my forearm/elbow area by working out, practicing inefficiently, and being on a computer all day at work on an IBM Think pad.
So he prescribed me an anti inflamitory Nabumetone and it seems to be helping. These next few weeks are aimed at recovery, reorganizing my work space now that I'm at a normal desk, rethinking how I play at the piano when the time comes, etc..


So, After lessons this monday my teacher put it to me this way. Obviously we had agreed that the right hand take it very easy, no practicing on it unless it feels fine, and even then only for five mintues, and very slowly. I'll continue taking the ant-inflamitory, and continue giving it a real good rest in my work life. NO GYM either.. (weight lifting). And we will begin really looking at whats going on with my playing physically and get in to the nitty gritty and concentrate on total relaxation, thinking in bigger movements and not being locked in any way. Already on monday we made good progress with the left hand only. She believes that I have a very good idea of the pieces musically, but physically, my movements are only hindering me, so we are re-evaluting how we move everything.. which is good, tedious, but good.

I had always felt that if I had to make a big choice music would always win because that's how important it is to me. Even if it meant that i had to move to Alaska because no one wants to hear my practice Bach Fugue's all day. But now I feel like I may actually have to make that kind of decision. Is music more important than the vanity? Can I put it aside, and just do music? Will I be tall and skinny the rest of my life? Can I live with that? Do I have to live with that?

For me as a new yorker, yes swimming is agreat alternative, but gyms with pools cost mega bucks.

So what do we do? Can't we be athletic and musical?

Just looking for idea's stories...

Dear Decibel,
If you're working out 'til it hurts, you're working out either too much, or with weights too heavy. Back off a little, or mix it up - my husband has a great routine where he has heavy-weight days, leg days, light weight but shoulder-stabilizer days and mixes them up on different days so no one thing gets totally strained. All preceded by a cardio workout, in his case, swimming. In my own case, I actually took up weight lifting in an attempt to ease tension in my shoulders. The plan was to strengthen my upper body muscles, using them for REAL tension, postitive tension, instead of the nervous tension I had been overloading them with... This was followed up with regular massages. Did it work? Not really, not the way I thought it might, but it sure felt good!
Feeling good and fit is important to your life. I always came back from the gym feeling great, and the feeling of well-being elevated my piano practice level by improving my ability to concentrate and move.
Also, remember, the pain in your arm and especially in your wrist may be coming from your computer work! I had one of hte worst spasms in my history from a computer keyboard that was sited too high, on my desttop instead of on a lower keyboard tray. I fixed the height and it improved my aches.
Finally, the best thing I've done for the tension in my shoulders has been to take Alexander technique lessons, which gets me to focus on how I'm using my head & neck and how that is the start and source of my shoulder tension. Information regarding Alexander technique is all over the web, any search engine will find it... I don't have the specific website address I started from to give to you, if you're interested, but I could probably track it down...

At any rate, good luck with your pain resolution. Thinking through its cause and finding its solution will be a good thing to do sooner rather than later.

The only thing that stinks about alexander instructors is that they charge so much!!!! Some are like 90 or 100 dollars an hour.

That's a lot of money!

sighs

Well, speaking as a powerlifter and a decent pianist (decent in light of the many highly-talented pianists on this forum), it is possible. Obviously if your technique is poor in regard to some exercise at the gym or at practicing the piano, causing you to have injuries, that's something that will have to be addressed separately. I don't know how much mass you are planning on adding. It's one thing to be 6' and increase your body weight 30 lbs., say from 170 to 200 lbs, and quite another to be 5'8" and go from 150 to 250. In any case, I have been lifting for many years and have gained a significant amount of body mass. The only instances I have encountered some difficulties (beyond the 'normal' pianistic difficulties) are when my hands are both turned outward and are relatively close together (as in Chopin's octave etude) or sometimes when hands are crossed, depedning on the notes being played (as in the last section of liebestraum)...as the pecs sometimes get in the way.
I'm sure that sounds funny to most!

Very true, very true. As I was typing away, it did occur to me to insert the disclaimer, "If you can afford it..."

Again, good luck.

You know I'm glad someone posted this I used to lift a lot, but found when I lift every other day my arms are sore from the lifting. And I can't practice at the piano as long I can't hold my arms up that steady for the 6 hours I usually go, even with frequent breaks. So I stopped working out... I'm 16 right now 5'8 and weigh 125... 2 years ago I was more like 5'6 and I weighed about 140 I lost a lot of muscle because I never was fat and it's kind of depressing!

Decibel,
What about working other parts of the body. Such as thighs, calves, abs. My son works out and plays. He's on a baseball scholarship and a music scholarship. He's a catcher and therefore I know he works his legs a lot, runs, etc... His chest is large and he has an arm because he has to throw people out at second. Yet, he still plays. Thinking about it and looking at his picture, his forearms are big. I'll ask him if you want me too.
Decibel, fortunately he works with his baseball trainers and they realize he needs his music scholarship too. This was at first hard to juggle because highschool coaches didn't understand his passion for music. I'll ask him.
justme

just me wrote good, thanks just me. let us know what he says.

ThEmUsIcMaNBJ wrote

It is depressing..

keep posting replies.... i need some sort of hope that i won't be lanky my whole life!$!@#$ :rolleyes:

As a rule, I would never do any sort of exersize that can conflict with any part of normal piano playing muscles. Jogging and running are fine, and swimming is great as well. When it comes to lifting weights, I just don't do it, I rather do something that has no chance of ever being strenuous to my arm/hand.

And especially not Basketball! I used to play a lot before I started the piano, and then I realized I had to stop because it made my piano muscles very sore!

I played intramural basketball all through college, including the years I was a performance major. The musical school had a team that was very competative in our league. Everybody on our team was athletic and there were 4 or 5 former All State players. One guy placed second in the nation in the MTNA piano competition and eventually went on to receive is doctorate from Indiana. So from my perspective, yes you can be an athlete and a pianist. Just watch those fingers

Ryan

Decibel,
In talking to my son, he says he has never had trouble playing the piano because of his arms. But, he's been playing ball and piano both from a young age. He's now 19. As I said he runs quite a bit, and lifts with his legs. He's down in Florida right now, and after talking to him on the phone he thought I was crazy. He kept saying in his IDHTFT (I don't have time for this) voice "I don't know, Mom."
After he's done thinking on it, he'll probably call me out of the blue next week and fully respond.
Good luck, remember you can build up your body weight without going to an extreme.
justme

decibel101, My Alexander Teacher charges half what you quote and she is very good. She won't be available for a little while since she left a message on my answering machine yesterday to say that she was in the beginning stages of labor and would probably give birth today! However, if you let me know how to contact you I'll give you her name and number. I don't know if she'll be taking new students, but if she does maybe it will work for you.

I played tennis for twenty-five years and did all sorts of training. I think the fitter you are aerobically the better you think and the better you do everything, including music. I don't know about strength training. I used the Bullworker once and it made my wrists feel funny so I stopped.

I agree with Ryan on this but take it a step further. In my opinion, if you are not in reasonably good shape you cannot be a really good pianist. Playing a piano is very much a physical activity and a motor skill like any sport. But the piano requires far greater physical and mental skills than any sport. But I don't see weighlifting as being in shape. Do you think a person could excel at any sport by merely lifting weights? An aerobic exercise like running, swimming, etc is required to be in good shape as an athlete. I run 12-15 miles a week and without that my piano playing suffers to the degree I cut the distance. The exercise provides a lot of energy and mental sharpness to the piano practicing. I usually run in the morning and then practice the piano. If I don't run, I can still practice but I don't feel near the level of energy and mental sharpness. I've noticed that most concert pianists look like they are in good shape, very few obese or "frail" looking ones. Being skinny doesn't necessarily mean you can't be in good shape or an athlete. So I believe you have to be athletic to be a pianist but it is how you define being athletic.

Tell that to Alexander Toradze:



If you dare...

David

heya decibel

it sounds like there are two conflicting objectives. One is about how the body looks and the other is about how well the body does things.

I'm not saying you can't have both... But if you're having the kind of pain that's bringing everything to a halt, it might help to concentrate fully on just one objective for the time being, and see how it affects the other. Pain often comes from the body's reactions to tension.

Flexibility conquers all, and flexibility has nothing to do with frailty.

Any kind of strength we build up has to be utilised, or it goes away.

We'll see what happens. I guess for now it's just running, abs, and legs. I don't want to stop all together, I'll just have to stay away from upper body activities, for at very, very bare minimum two weeks.

Hopefully I can look at this all as a great learning experience instead of being ashamed or embarassed. At least, that is what my teacher says.

Physical health contributes to longevity and well being. If you will be sitting for 8 hours a day it would be best to incorporate activity into at least some of the other hours. You want to develop and maintain your cardiovascular health , (breath hard 3 or 4 times weekly - as in speed walking, climbing stairs, running or swimming), attain maximum flexibility - stretch every muscle when you awake, or throughout the day, and build strength in all your muscles, not just the ones that show. Pushing one's self is very difficult for some of the people. It's very important tho is you want to remain active past your 60s.

As to your question, I will never be a good pianist because I devote too much time to other things like physical activity. I guess exercising on the way to the piano would be the way to go.

Yes. He plays in Cincinnati regularly (did Rachmannoff #3 this year), is over 220 pounds, and gets a huge sound out of the instrument.