I have followed things on the forum was awhile but just recently joined. I have searched the Forum and have found relatively little specific information on new M&M or on new Steinway A's.

I would like advice on my potential purchase of a new Mason and Hamlin or new Steinway. I would like to get at least a 6 foot piano because to my ear this length is roughly where full bass sound starts. I am considering a new M&H AA or even jumping up in price to a new Steinway A if my wife agrees to it. I like the sound of both pianos but am in a bit of a quandary. A few questions in my mind:

1. Are new M&H pianos with good dealer prep a good purchase?

2. Do you get more bang for the buck buying a M&H than a Steinway?(e.g., a M&H BB lists for the same as a Steinway A)

3. What do people think about a M&H AA vs. a Steinway A?

4. To extend things, what about a M&H BB vs. a Steinway B?

I know that my questions will have highly subjective answers (I should get what has the best touch and sound to me), but I am interested in your subjective answers nonetheless. My questions have focused on two American brands but I am open to what you think about other brands if relevant.

Thanks.

Hi Andy,

You are certainly considering 2 of my favorites. Let me try and answer your questions.

"1. Are new M&H pianos with good dealer prep a good purchase?"

Emphatically yes. And with great dealer prep and great follow up service, they are a great purchase! They do require insiteful and thorough prep to be brought to their potential. The neat thing is that the potential of the M&H is much greater with extensive prep than most other pianos that may arrive better prepped from the factory. Our service department also is regularly engaged to work on newer Steinways, and they also require a lot of prep, and even more than the Masons. The newer Steinways also really bloom when worked on correctly.

"2. Do you get more bang for the buck buying a M&H than a Steinway?(e.g., a M&H BB lists for the same as a Steinway A)"

I think unquestionably you get more bang for the buck with M&H for exactly the reasons you state, plus new Masons get much deeper discounts than new Steinways. For the price of a new Steinway M, you can easily get a new M&H BB.
Now, with that said, if you like Steinway's sound and touch more than Mason, regardless of size and price, you should go with the Steinway. The reverse is also true, of course, and if you prefer the Mason sound and touch, or like it equally, you can certainly get a much larger piano for the same or less money.

"3. What do people think about a M&H AA vs. a Steinway A?"

I like both pianos a lot. I do prefer the Steinway A3 6'4" design that they discontinued around 1945, to the current A2 6'2" design, but I like the current Steinway A2s quite a bit. I was first able to compare these 2 pianos at a national PTG convention a couple years ago, and they both have a lot going for them. They each have their own voice and touch, so play them both and see what you think.

"4. To extend things, what about a M&H BB vs. a Steinway B?"

Again, both pianos have the potential to be great. The Steinway B has a more explosive, exciting bass, and the Mason & Hamlin BB has a deeper, richer bass. Treble on the Mason is more clear and brilliant, while the NY Steinway B treble will have more complexity. The NY Steinway B treble will need some very good voicing to bring it out, it can be quite dull without it, although they are lacquering their hammers a lot these days at the factory, and this certainly makes the treble brighter initially than in previous years.
Factory touch weight is generally lighter on Masons and heavier on Steinways, partially influenced by the perception of sound. The harder hammers in the new M&H make it easier to get a brilliant tone than the softer Steinway hammers, and this can make the action on the Mason seem easier to play.

Both piano makers have a bit more variance piano to piano than some of the expensive German and Japanese pianos, so you really need to listen carefully to each piano as an individual.
But, if you find the right new Mason & Hamlin or new Steinway, and either is properly prepared and then you have a great tech to service them, you will have a great American piano either way.

I agree with Keith completely.

At the same price, M&H is a better buy, IF you like it better in comparison to a similarly priced Steinway.

BTW, I have no connection to M&H either as a dealer or as a consulting client.

Good advice. I played at least 5 BB's before I played one that after about only one minute's playing I thought would probably be the one.(I only bought it after about another two hours of playing)And my experience with Steinways is that they vary more than almost any Tier 1 or Tier 2 piano.

My experience may be worth more than 2 cents since I've played a lot, a lot of all of these pianos.

And I am very fond of all of them.

Looking at the piano as a whole rather than comparing basses, trebles, etc., the Steinway B wins hands down over the Mason BB.

It's a little closer between the A and the AA. Almost a tossup. A really well prepped A might win but not by much. If you can get an AA with the new and improved M&H composite action you should go for that.

I dealt with many Mason & Hamlin AA and BB and Steinway A and B grand pianos in the process of restoration and played new ones. Traditionally, they both built high quality instruments and still continue this great tradition. Because they got difference in the building process and scale design, each piano got a distinct sound.

Consider trying both, you make the final decision.

When I was piano shopping, I chose a new Mason BB over the comparable-sized Steinway, after trying a lot of both. Actually, I tried out all sizes of Masons and of Steinways. The Masons beat the Steinways in every size group. I am delighted with my Mason, and I have no regrets whatsoever. Periodically I try out pianos, just for fun, and to this day I have never played a Steinway that compared to my Mason.

Incidentally, I have no connections with the retail or commercial world of pianos, and am a very amateurish amateur. I just like how the Masons sound and how they play. Some of the most glorious Masons are in what sounds like your size category, the 6'4" grand (I forget the letter).

Like Doogs, I have played many examples of these two brands. They are both great makers and a lot will come down to your personal preference and budget. I think Keith made many good points.
For my tastes, in a head to head between a Steinway B and a Mason BB, I'd go with the Steinway B in general (there are always variations in individual pianos). I like that color and complexity of the S&S sound and I find that with regulation and voicing the action and sound of the Steinway do it for me in a way that the M&H does not-- I just find most new M&H's are too jangly in the treble and boomy in the bass for my tastes. The AA vs A comparison is a little harder given the length discrepancy but I've played some awfully nice S&S A's that just sang beautifully.... The M&H bass is very nice though too.

Of course, if you're going for the most pounds of piano per dollar-- M&H would definitely win for weight/price ratio!

It's a nice dilemma to have between such beautiful instruments. Good luck!

Sophia

Keith has already answered this post beautifully. In general, Mason dealers that I have met put much more prep into their pianos than the Steinway dealers that I know.

Here in the Philadelphia area, we are asked regularly to do extensive service to relatively new Steinway pianos that frankly, should have been done before the customer took delivery. I have not seen that type of situation occur with Mason dealers, as a rule.

Of course, I do not know all of the Steinway and Mason dealers in the USA, let alone the world, so my experience is largely anecdotal - educated, yes, but anecdotal.

My 2 cents,

For every poster that recommends a M&H AA over a Steinway A (count me as one) you'll get another poster recommending the Steinway A. Between the two it really comes down to personal preference. There are however, a number of other, high quality 6'+ grands that I would recomend you try out before making a final decision. I have two favorites. First is a Grotrian 190 (I own one). Clear sounding powerful bass, with a dark tone and singing treble. I also like the Bechstein Academy 190 which sounds every bit as good at the C.Bechstein line, but far less expensive. Both can be had far less than a Steinway A.

Rich

Not just pounds/dollar but piano/dollar also.

Not if the sound of the piano is not what you are looking for......

Well, if you dislike the sound a lot than no piano is a bargain at any price. But assuming that's not the case it would be some trade off between the price of a piano and how much you like the sound.

On the other hand, I doubt many people would prefer a Steinway S or M to a Mason BB (although I'm sure there are some).

Probably only those who care about fallboard inscriptions.

Thanks for the many opinions.

Based on everyone's input, I have concluded that:

1. MH AA vs. SS A: a close call decided by subjective factors but the AA gets me at least $8,000 extra to invest in the stock market (probably even more $ because of MH ability to discount and SS unwillingness to discount)

2. M&H BB vs. SS B: The SS B might have an edge over the MH BB even though the SS B is a little more expensive.

3. It's time for me to find a Bechstein and Grotrian dealer in my area to cover my bases.

Another question:

How would you respond to the Steinway salesman who told me that: "MH is not a SS. A new MH resale value drops when it leaves the showroom while a new SS value stays the same."?

(By the way, I don't believe that any piano is an investment except for its intrinsic value as a musical instrument.)

Thanks.

If you buy a M&H you will get more for your money but if you prefer the S&S sound the extra money might be worth it to you.

LJC summed it up pretty nicely. Just find which one you like, if you happen to prefer the M&H, then feel lucky because you get to save money. If you like the SS better then you know that you'll have to spend a little more for your piano.

If you are gonna look at Bechstein and Grotrain then you should try the August Forster 190 as well.

Dan

I think your figures are considerably off. Based on the Fine Supplement and the normal discounts available on these pianos a Steinway A is a minimum of 20K more than a Mason AA and probably closer to 25K more. A Steinway B is around 30K more than a Mason BB. If you buy a non ebony finish then comparing similar finishes on both pianos the difference in price is even greater.

As far as comparing a Mason BB to a Steinway without any price considerations, I have played many B's but none for a long enough time(since I knew I couldn't afford one, I don't think I ever spent more than 5 minutes on one)to make a personal decision.

I do know that in the Faust Harrison piano contest of a few years ago(pitting a Steinway B and a Mason BB)involving the input of I think over 100 people, the BB won by a very small(probably insignificant IMO)margin. (I am not saying that the BB is superior...only that there was far more input in that contest than in this thread)

To the salesman I would say "Great, I'll buy the Steinway(I would choose some exotic wood) and sell it back to you in 5 years for the same price. Thanks for the free rental."(Repeat process for the next 50 years)It is probably true that Steinways retain a somewhat greater percentage of their value than Masons.

I agree with Sophia and the others who said it really should come down to your preferred sound. I have not played the Steinway A, but when I was shopping, I was pitting the M&H A vs. the Steinway M, and preferred the A by a large margin. I like a boomy bass.

If resale is going to be a factor for you, Steinway does indeed have the advantage there.

But when all is said and done, you'll be spending a lot of money whichever way you go, so you might as well pick the piano whose sound you prefer and consider these other factors (price, resale) only if you truly don't have a preference.

Financial times are changing, though, and there is no guarantee that this or anything like it will still hold in the future.

I bought new and sold a S&S several years later at the same price.

But I seriously doubt that anyone purchasing a new S&S today would get anywhere near their own purchase price if they tried to sell 5-10 years down the line.

I expect that new prices will be dropping over the next decade.

I can't be the only one who thinks this way, either.

i wish i had this dilemna

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Hmmm... then you are saying that you would pay essentially the same price (or 3% less per year)for a used Steinway? You may answer yes to that question, but the market does not bear that to be true.

Case in point - I have a 9 year old S&S B in my showroom right now that is in "like new" condition. In fact, a local professional musician just told me she preferred this one to new ones she recently played.

It is selling for 49k with a fresh set of hammers, a full regulation, voicing, touch up of the ebony satin finish, and a new warranty.

The local S&S dealer would not buy it back... for ANY price. Just food for thought.

If you are a proficient player,the decision is quite easy as for which piano you personally, subjectively prefer. Now value and pricepoint always comes into play as for realistically what $ amount one is willing to allocate toward their purchase.
You're talking a major $ difference between a new M&H AA vrs.a new NY Steinway A. It sounds to me you are set on a "new" piano either way from your initial inquiry which is fine.
Now if you broaden your horizons.a remanufactured Steinway A could be had for not that much more $
than the new AA. Of course,there are remanufacturers/restoration facilities that the final product can exceed the price of a "new" one but there are also some that don't.
Now, I myself being a Steinway supporter will admit this is blatent BS.For one thing M&H is heavily discounted as for Steinway sticking to their guns pursuing retail,at least the ones staying in business. Steinway appreciation only applies in the long term.
As Rich had stated prior that the Steinway dealer
chose not to buy it back at any $ is the fact,they purchase "brand new" ones at wholesale for probably lesser $ than the seller was willing to take for her preowned one.
Now to convolute the issue a bit,you may want to sample the wares of some vintage remanufactured Mason & Hamlin grands in that the new ones,being great pianos are not the same as an older vintage one remanufactured.Just a suggestion. You can find many vintage remanufactured Steinway A(s) in the marketplace for less $ than a new one. It would probably make your wife happy too. In conclusion find that special piano and than sell your soul to get if you have to Good luck!

There have been several threads on this forum centering on the Steinway resale value claims. In my view, a view shared by many others on this forum, the Steinway resale value claims are sales hype, pure and simple. To the extent that there is any truth to them at all (something which I doubt), they also rely on prices in a world where everything of substantial value goes up in price every year, such as real estate. Well, we all know where that argument lies today. . . a minimum of six feet under. A Steinway loses value when it leaves the showroom, no matter what the sales staff may say. No dealer could buy it back for the same price for which he or she sold it to you, because the dealer would have to raise its price well beyond that of a new one in order to make a profit reselling it. And if you want to sell it yourself, you would have to find a private customer willing to pay you the same price you paid, which is very unlikely as you would be competing with new Steinways that would be very close in price to yours and come with warranties as well.