Does this ever happen to you?

When my physical technique rapidly advances, I cannot express myself in the music.

When I am really musical and expressive, I cannot physically play all of the notes.

I remember a topic on this earlier in the year.

So frustrating! This morning, I was practicing the Grieg Concerto, and I was shocked at some of my technique. But I could not express a thing! I couldn't even feel anything as I was playing it!

I asked my dad about it afterwards, and he reminded me of something a university professor had told me earlier in the year: that one must find the perfect combination of being faithful to oneself as well as to the music. The professor's point was that I was trying so hard to express myself, that I was not being faithful to the music and wasn't getting all of the notes right.

So, my dad theorized, now I am too concerned with being faithful to the music, that I am not allowing any room for self-expression. It's true! I spend so much time working on the notes, bumping up the metronome by two's, practicing the same passage for hours to get it 'just right'.

But how does one find that perfect balance of music and self? I cannot express myself if I cannot play the notes. How does one learn the notes without "over-practicing"?

As you can tell, this is a concept I have been struggling with for some time:

Authenticity vs. Inspiration
Is this justice?
Etudes - Yes? No? Maybe?
Would Bach Be Angry?
...

No, can't say it has happened to me. I'm not all that serious a pianist though so perhaps I wouldn't notice.

Exact same thing happens to me a lot. Working on this Beethoven sonata at the moment, and when I just play kind of slowly and really carefully it is all perfect. But absolutely dead. Really depressing. When I just play stuff dies all over the place. (musical/technical stuff, not stuff unfortunate enough to hear my playing)

I think maybe there are still some things that I have to get really nailed down... One thing I have noticed when I play with a focus on musicality is that I'm kind of worrying about technical elements in the back of my mind and I develop a bit of tension. Not that much, but just enough to make all of the things I'm worrying about fall apart. Things do go much more smoothly when I loosen up. I don't know whether you might be a bit tense without knowing it or what, but it could be something to consider.

I think this comes from being a highly type A person - Beethoven would roll in his grave if he knew I was playing his Appassionata! Grieg would roll in his grave if he knew I was playing his concerto!

In order to play all of the notes technically well, I have to "over-practice". I have to focus completely on getting the notes, and thus my expression lacks.

But on the pieces that I am technically very good at - Shostakovich preludes, Chopin preludes, Bach inventions/preludes/fugues, etc. - I am very good musically, I guess because I don't have to worry about technique so much.

One thing that has helped is making sure that I practice as much of what I plan to do "musically" into my passage work. There's only so many elements you can nail down at once, but it does help somewhat. It's a conundrum. I have a feeling that I'll be looking for the perfect balance for a while... ha ha.

Pianojerome,

Excellent topic!

Reading a lot of interviews with the great pianists has taught me that the score is a mere template ... a barebones sketch or outline. It is up to the performer to use the score to express something personal while interpreting the notation.

IMHO the performer must ask what *ideas* the composer is trying to express via the score. Music and emotions are so complex and so varied, I don't think any notation can begin to do more than function as a suggestive outline.

Until I have the notes down cold, I'm not making music, just playing notes. After I've got the technical problems worked out and can play a piece from memory, self-expression [hopefully!] will happen.

One of the miracles for me is that my favorite pieces sound so much different, according to my mood, energy level and so forth. Even a fairly simple piece like the Bach Prelude in C, WTK Book I, has for me many interesting and valid ways of being played.

"The score contains everything that is important in music, except for that which is essential." -- Gustav Mahler

So, I guess what I should do then is continue to work on the notes, ramping up the metronome by two's, until I get the notes "just right." I won't be able to play musically during the process, but then once I can play the notes, I will be able to express myself and the music.

Which is why I am so musical when playing "easier" pieces that I can really nail note-wise. I don't play them necessarily musically when I first read them, but I just learn them really quickly, so I can get to the real music of it quickly.

I once read an interview on Zimerman, and he said that when he practises he only works on small segments alone, rarely playing through the whole piece (from this I assume that he was mostly working on technical aspects), and that through this he creates every piece anew for the first time on stage.

I dont know, maybe this method can help you.

Hi Sam,

Here's a thought you practice the literal meaning of the score and concentrate on it so much that feeling gets put aside. Or your technique has advanced far enough to play the notes, but not enough that you can stop thinking while you're playing and start feeling. In example one I'd suggest taking a break (practice other pieces) then come back to the piece with a fresh perspective. In example 2 you need to practice more. If you think both apply I have no idea what you should do.

pianodevo, my piano teacher and I were discussing this at my last lesson, and she said something similar. Once you have the notes down cold expression and interest will come.. Just kind of goes in layers. And putting a piece aside for a few days can help too if you have it at a good level. It's weird.. like things sink in during that time, and you have better insight when you come back to it.

double post

Malinovka,

Yes ... somehow a lot of processing goes on in the subconscious.

Jorge Bolet remarked that it took 12 or 14 days for his practicing to bear visible fruit.

"Malinovka" ... sounds Russian (?)

There is nothing like preparedness. You have to make the piece your own before you can interpret it freely..Each performance will be different. You must analyze the composer's wishes in the melody. You have to have a free mind and an accepting mind in order to play your best, as you nee your full heart.. The most creative and heart felt performance does not always have perfect technique, but rather showmanship.. Don't forget showmanship!!! The desire for expression overtakes technique, I think.
One day I went for a walk in the park. I brought a book and read. it was a beautiful spring day and the scenery was marvelous.. I came home and played the best in a long while..

Not my real name, he he . And good guess it is Russian. If you translate it into English you'll get my real name.. that is.. unless the last translator thing I used gave me something wrong! Was writing up a sig and decided to kind of steal Apple's idea.

Malinovka is raspberry liquer...

:p

rofl! I didn't know that! That's just what I got when I typed 'Robin' into the English-Russian dictionary. Tried it on several different ones just to check. he he he O well. Little did I know that I had an ad for raspberry liqueur after all of my posts.

Malinovka is a city in Russia...

Malinovka is a river in Russia...

Malinovka is a type of rose...

Reminds me of the story about the malinovka from Malinovka who drank too much malinovka and fell into the Malinovka. He was later washed up into a patch of malinovkas, where he was found a young pianist named Malinovka.

lol. Well I guess I ended up picking a pretty good sig after all. he he, where did you get that little story?

I got that story from my ever-thinking nogin.

There's a french poem that's taught in the elementary schools in France for learning the meanings of the homonyms fois (time), foie (liver), foi (faith), Foix (a city), and ma foi (I swear on my faith):

Il était une fois, un marchand de foie, qui vendait du foie dans la ville de Foix. Il m'a dit, "ma foi, c'est la première fois que je vends du foie dans la ville de Foix!"

(There once was a liver merchant who sold liver in the city of Foix. He told me, "On my faith, this is the first time that I've ever sold liver in the city of Foix!")

I got the idea sort of from that poem...

ha ha! It would be funny to make a signature out of the English translation of that, just to see if anyone got it. :p

How well do you know French? You've taken it in school?

This is my 5th year of French.

A.P. French 500.

So, I guess I understand a little bit.

hmm I suppose you would then. I've always been a language nut myself... (incredibly jealous of MattG who probably knows 500 languages lol)

back on the topic... I'M SO ANNOYED WITH HOW I PLAY! GOSH! my technique is kind of improving, I'm hopingit is, but my musicality is fairly pathetic at the moment. so sad. I need a better piano too... If anyone reading this has an extra 30k laying around someplace that they just want to get rid of, please PM me. I will be your friend for life lol.

Wait a minute.. that wasn't really on topic anyway. that was just me ranting! ha! sorry about that...

*thistooshallpassthistooshallpass.....*