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#538199 - 04/07/03 04:36 PM Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
Here ae my choices:

Hardest(Since I don't play any of these I am speculating.Please indicate in your answer if you actually play any of your choices):

Don Juan Fantasy. Beethoven Symphonies, Tanhauser

Most beautiful(I guess this depends a lot on how beautiful the original is):

Schubert-Litaney(one of the simplest ones which I do play and it's amazing), Schubert-Auf dem Wasser zu Singen (I don't even know what this song is about but I love it), Schubert- The Miller and the Brook, Schumann- Fruhlingsnacht

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#538200 - 04/07/03 04:42 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5228
Loc: McAllen, TX
If we're going to use the term "transcription" literally:
Beethoven 9 (just nigh of unsurmountable)
Symphonie Fantastique
Tannhauser overture

Operatic Paraphrases:
Don Juan
Norma
Robert la Diable

Song Transcriptions:
Erlking
Ave Maria (don't be fooled)

I haven't played any of these, but my personal favorite by miles is Norma. Maybe I'll play it next year.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#538201 - 04/07/03 08:58 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
Diarmuid2 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 871
Loc: London
How about the "Tarentelle di bravura" from Auber's "La Muette de Portici". I got the music out of the library once and it looked brutally difficult. I've only heard two recordings of it, Howard (struggles badly) and Cziffra (the less said about that the better). It's a cracking piece though. I guess we'll have to wait for Hamelin to do it justice.

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#538202 - 04/07/03 11:13 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
magnezium Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 722
Loc: Singapore
most beautiful:

Schubert: Standchen, Auf dem wasser zu singen, In der ferne

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#538203 - 04/07/03 11:16 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
ChemicalGrl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 643
Loc: Durham, North Carolina
Just curious. Heard a friend of mine play an organ piece of Liszt's ... something on a theme of B.A.C.H. It's one of the pieces he has to play for his FAGO exams in July. I was wondering if there exists a piano transcription for this piece (or is it even possible for this one to be transcribed for the piano ...)

I told him that I hope he'll be testing on an organ on which he could set his stops on pistons, otherwise he'd go mad trying to change his registrations midway through that piece ...

Lyn F.
_________________________
Regards,
Lyn F.

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#538204 - 04/07/03 11:39 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Lyn, I am working on Bach' Prelude and Fugue in A minor for Organ, transcribed by Lizst for piano. It's about 14 pages long and SEEMS easy to learn because it's pretty much all onthe white keys. It is both beautiful and pretty difficult.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#538205 - 04/08/03 07:26 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
Lyn, I am working on Bach' Prelude and Fugue in A minor for Organ, transcribed by Lizst for piano. It's about 14 pages long and SEEMS easy to learn because it's pretty much all onthe white keys. It is both beautiful and pretty difficult.[/b]
If your advanced enough to learn this piece, I can't understand how you would possibly think that the key signature could be a determining factor in its difficulty!

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#538206 - 04/08/03 08:26 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I'm sorry - I am a total piano protocol idiot. I guess the piece for me is easy to sight read but hard to learn. I don't know, it seems like it should be easy but I've been working on it for months now. It just won't get into my head.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#538207 - 04/08/03 05:05 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
Lyn, I am working on Bach' Prelude and Fugue in A minor for Organ, transcribed by Lizst for piano. It's about 14 pages long and SEEMS easy to learn because it's pretty much all onthe white keys. It is both beautiful and pretty difficult.[/b]
If your advanced enough to learn this piece, I can't understand how you would possibly think that the key signature could be a determining factor in its difficulty![/b]
Yes, it IS a determining factor.

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#538208 - 04/08/03 05:10 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
mrenaud Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 1305
Loc: Switzerland
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
Lyn, I am working on Bach' Prelude and Fugue in A minor for Organ, transcribed by Lizst for piano. It's about 14 pages long and SEEMS easy to learn because it's pretty much all onthe white keys. It is both beautiful and pretty difficult.[/b]
If your advanced enough to learn this piece, I can't understand how you would possibly think that the key signature could be a determining factor in its difficulty![/b]
Yes, it IS a determining factor.[/b]
I don't think so. Neither sight-reading nor learning that piece would be more difficult if it were in E-sharp major.
_________________________
I have an ice cream. I cannot mail it, for it will melt.

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#538209 - 04/08/03 06:58 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
5 and 6 flats or sharps are always more difficult for me to learn. I've got the normal keys down pat.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#538210 - 04/08/03 07:10 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
5 and 6 flats or sharps are always more difficult for me to learn. I've got the normal keys down pat.[/b]
If this is the case for you, then I would say that the Bach Liszt Prelude and Fugue you mentioned is way too difficult for you(and hence the trouble you are having with it). Far less than 1% of people who play the piano are capable in my opinion of playing this piece well.

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#538211 - 04/08/03 09:07 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Oh, it's not too hard. I love it. I hardly ever get to really practice and I just get frustrated because it won't just flow into my brain already memorized. Rach's Cminor prelude, now is too hard at least the last 2 pages, but I still practice it because I just love those chosen chords.

I know I've said what apparently you think are unusual things about pieces and playing, but I am almost 50, and some years I played 50 hrs. a week. I have played alot of music. My classical repertoire is pretty much limited to Bach and Chopin, and my musical experience is limited, but I take playing very seriously. I know won't learn much from me, but I'd appreciate it if you would disagree with me non-disdainfully and not make assumptions about what I can and cannot play from your personal experience. The world is broad.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#538212 - 04/08/03 09:10 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
5 and 6 flats or sharps are always more difficult for me to learn. I've got the normal keys down pat.[/b]
If this is the case for you, then I would say that the Bach Liszt Prelude and Fugue you mentioned is way too difficult for you(and hence the trouble you are having with it). Far less than 1% of people who play the piano are capable in my opinion of playing this piece well.[/b]
Let me guess, and YOU are one of those people? :rolleyes:

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#538213 - 04/09/03 02:24 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
StanSteel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 646
Loc: Los Angeles
 Quote:
Originally posted by mrenaud:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
quote:
Originally posted by apple:
Lyn, I am working on Bach' Prelude and Fugue in A minor for Organ, transcribed by Lizst for piano. It's about 14 pages long and SEEMS easy to learn because it's pretty much all onthe white keys. It is both beautiful and pretty difficult.[/b]
If your advanced enough to learn this piece, I can't understand how you would possibly think that the key signature could be a determining factor in its difficulty![/b]
Yes, it IS a determining factor.[/b]
I don't think so. Neither sight-reading nor learning that piece would be more difficult if it were in E-sharp major.
Do you know a lot of pieces that were written in this key? :rolleyes: Do you see the connection?
_________________________
"War does not determine who is right; only who is left."

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#538214 - 04/09/03 05:11 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
johnmoonlight Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 2384
Loc: Lancaster, pa
I personally love Lizst's transcription of Beethoven's Eroica Funeral March...others have commented that it is tougher to play than it sounds.
_________________________
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.

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#538215 - 04/09/03 06:04 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
5 and 6 flats or sharps are always more difficult for me to learn. I've got the normal keys down pat.[/b]
If this is the case for you, then I would say that the Bach Liszt Prelude and Fugue you mentioned is way too difficult for you(and hence the trouble you are having with it). Far less than 1% of people who play the piano are capable in my opinion of playing this piece well.[/b]
Let me guess, and YOU are one of those people? [/b]
I am not in the "far less than 1%" category. I am in the top 2% or better and I fully understand how much difference there is between the bottom of the top 2% and professional level pianists who I would rate in the top .1% . It's the same way in chess, Although I am in the top 5% of rated players, I would lose 1000 out of a 1000 games to a grandmaster.

But although there can always be exceptions, it seems totally incongruous to me that someone who has difficulty with 5 or 6 flats would be playing a difficult Liszt transciption.

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#538216 - 04/09/03 06:08 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
Oh, it's not too hard. I love it. I hardly ever get to really practice and I just get frustrated because it won't just flow into my brain already memorized. Rach's Cminor prelude, now is too hard at least the last 2 pages, but I still practice it because I just love those chosen chords.

I know I've said what apparently you think are unusual things about pieces and playing, but I am almost 50, and some years I played 50 hrs. a week. I have played alot of music. My classical repertoire is pretty much limited to Bach and Chopin, and my musical experience is limited, but I take playing very seriously. I know won't learn much from me, but I'd appreciate it if you would disagree with me non-disdainfully and not make assumptions about what I can and cannot play from your personal experience. The world is broad.[/b]
I am sorry for any comments that were inappropriate or out of place.

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#538217 - 04/09/03 06:08 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19097
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
Oh, it's not too hard. I love it. I hardly ever get to really practice and I just get frustrated because it won't just flow into my brain already memorized. Rach's Cminor prelude, now is too hard at least the last 2 pages, but I still practice it because I just love those chosen chords.

I know I've said what apparently you think are unusual things about pieces and playing, but I am almost 50, and some years I played 50 hrs. a week. I have played alot of music. My classical repertoire is pretty much limited to Bach and Chopin, and my musical experience is limited, but I take playing very seriously. I know won't learn much from me, but I'd appreciate it if you would disagree with me non-disdainfully and not make assumptions about what I can and cannot play from your personal experience. The world is broad.[/b]
I am sorry for any comments that were inappropriate or out of place.

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#538218 - 04/09/03 06:18 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
yok Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 463
Loc: New Zealand
Erlking must be pretty difficult, because it's hard enough when you don't have to play the melody as well. I seem to recall Leslie Howard saying that the Symphonie Fantastique transcription was one of the hardest of any works by Liszt.

There are very few Schubert lieder which I don't find more beautiful in the original (provided the singer is good). I admire Liszt's determination to make such great music better known, but he would be probably be frustrated to find how often those pieces are now played at the expense of many of his original compositions.

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#538219 - 04/09/03 09:49 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Gosh Pianoloverus - I didn't remember this was a public forum when I voiced my frustrations. Sorry. I always seek out what you say about things to other people and think highly of you opinions. I'm sorry I said that publicly.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

Top
#538220 - 04/09/03 11:05 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
valarking Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 2331
Loc: Dallas
 Quote:
Originally posted by StanSteel:
 Quote:
Originally posted by mrenaud:
 Quote:
Originally posted by valarking:
quote:
Originally posted by pianoloverus:
quote:
Originally posted by apple:
Lyn, I am working on Bach' Prelude and Fugue in A minor for Organ, transcribed by Lizst for piano. It's about 14 pages long and SEEMS easy to learn because it's pretty much all onthe white keys. It is both beautiful and pretty difficult.[/b]
If your advanced enough to learn this piece, I can't understand how you would possibly think that the key signature could be a determining factor in its difficulty![/b]
Yes, it IS a determining factor.[/b]
I don't think so. Neither sight-reading nor learning that piece would be more difficult if it were in E-sharp major.
Do you know a lot of pieces that were written in this key? :rolleyes: Do you see the connection?

I just noticed that! LOL

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#538221 - 04/09/03 02:19 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17666
Loc: Victoria, BC
While I have never been a total Liszt fan(atic), I have many times felt he is at his best in his transcriptions. I have played (at) many of his transcriptions of the songs of Schubert and I find, with only few exceptions that these transcriptions
1) reveal a complete respect and love for the originals
2) are sometimes the highest form of creative cleverness - adeptly interweaving the vocal line with something close to the original accompaniment,
3) are joys of pure pianism where showmanship for its own sake often takes a (very) back seat to the essence of the music
4) focus on the melody/vocal line

Examples : "Auf dem Wasser zu singen" "Du bist die Ruh'" "Der Mller und der Bach" "Sei mir gegrsst" "Stndchen" "Litanei" "Trockne Blumen" "Der Lindenbaum" etc., the list could go on and on.

Also, his transcription of Mendelssohn's "Auf Flugeln des Gesanges" is another of the same ilk. His opera paraphrases, well that's another story.

If you don't know some of these transcriptions, they really are worth investigating - even more so when you know and love the originals, can't sing worth a darn, but love to be able to use them as a means of musical expression.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#538222 - 04/09/03 10:03 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
Tavner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 376
Loc: San Diego
Lyn wrote,
 Quote:
Just curious. Heard a friend of mine play an organ piece of Liszt's ... something on a theme of B.A.C.H. It's one of the pieces he has to play for his FAGO exams in July. I was wondering if there exists a piano transcription for this piece (or is it even possible for this one to be transcribed for the piano ...)[/b]
Actually, there is a piano transcription of this piece. Like a lot of Liszt it has tons of notes, but it is quite playable with practice. My brother is an organist and said the organ version is harder; I said, "Of course, you have to worry about what your feet are doing in addition to your hands!". The piano version is available in a Kalmus edition K09367, "Miscellaneous Piano Works, Volume III".
_________________________
Tavner

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#538223 - 04/10/03 11:33 AM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
mrenaud Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 1305
Loc: Switzerland
 Quote:
Originally posted by StanSteel:
 Quote:
Originally posted by mrenaud:
I don't think so. Neither sight-reading nor learning that piece would be more difficult if it were in E-sharp major.[/b]
Do you know a lot of pieces that were written in this key? :rolleyes: Do you see the connection?[/b]
No, I don't. And that's because there's no connection whatsoever between the key signature and the difficulty of a piece. So if it were in E-sharp major, what would it matter?
_________________________
I have an ice cream. I cannot mail it, for it will melt.

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#538224 - 04/10/03 05:05 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
Dave_2003_G Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 167
Loc: England
I think he meant that there's no such key as E sharp minor

Dave

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#538225 - 04/10/03 05:30 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
mrenaud Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 1305
Loc: Switzerland
 Quote:
Originally posted by Dave_2003_G:
I think he meant that there's no such key as E sharp minor

Dave[/b]
D'oh!

I know that there's no such key, but if there were, it had three sharps and four double-sharps. But it wouldn't make the piece more difficult to learn, which was exactly my point.

Actually, there is technically an infinite number of possible keys.
_________________________
I have an ice cream. I cannot mail it, for it will melt.

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#538226 - 04/10/03 06:38 PM Re: Most difficult/most beautiful Liszt transcription
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Learning something like a key that does not exist would be difficult for me even with one less sharp.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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