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Is it just me, or do a lot of Beethovens most famous themes sound very similar. For example: The Choral Fantasy, the main theme from the 1st movement of the 6th symphony, and Ode to Joy from the 9th. They all sound like variations of the same theme. I don't mean to demean the brilliance of all these works - they are each unquestionably individual masterpieces - but it's been bothering me for a while. Am I the only one?

i think you're not mistaken. in fact, Beethoven used some same themes in different works. even today or yesterday when i drove to work, i heard a Beethoven contra dance piece which is totally unfamiliar to me except that very familiar theme (sounded like in one of his symphonies).

What is that popular phrase we should remember? "Reduce, reuse, and recycle" I think?

Well, I don't personally see too much similarity in the ode to joy theme and the 6th symphony, but there is an obvious similarity between ode to joy and the choral fantasy. There is also a lied that he wrote that uses a very similar theme called Seufzer eines Ungeliebten - Gegenlieb (WoO 118).

Also, he used the same theme in the 3rd movement of the Eroica symphony, the Eroica variations, and in the ballet music to The Creatures of Prometheus.

He definitely reused some melodies, but we certainly can't hold that against him - he knew a good tune when he had one. Also, it is likely that he had to meet some commitments that were rather aggressive, so rather than come up with a brand new melody, maybe he just chose to rework an existing one.

Ha, you should see how much Bach recycles material for concertos...

Beethoven spent a great deal of time thinking about the ninth symphony, it's something that germinated over a LONG period of time.

The choral fantasy was rumored to be his first try at it, but it took longer than that to germinate.

And then there's Mahler, recycling that beautiful theme from the first symphony for the third, as well.

Which themes/movements are you referring to?

Zack,

You're not mistaken. He used the same theme in both the Choral Fantasy and his 6th and 9th Symphonies.

The contradance that Signa speaks of is the same theme in his finale to the the Eroica Symphony (No. 3). He also wrote some Eroica Variations on the same theme for piano. The variations, by the way, are really hard.

I can imagine trying to please a publisher's schedule, running out of ideas, and/or running out of time. I am sure that he, like many other artists and composers had scrapbooks of things that they borrowed on to meet deadlines. My dad did this as a graphic artist (now retired) when he needed to put together layouts for customers.

John