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#540283 - 02/23/09 03:03 AM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
doesn't that really depend on how you wiggle your fingers? how do you explain people who practice 7-10hrs a day without getting strained? did they develop an enormously strong muscle that can withstand that much practicing?

Some people play in such a way that you actually see fingers moving up and down to press the keys.. some people play in such a way that you barely see their fingers moving at all.

My teacher used to say that if your hands are getting tired from practicing then you're probably doing something wrong.

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#540284 - 02/23/09 04:01 AM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzyprof:
Are you talking about endurance and stamina? Again those have nothing to do with power and strength otherwise sprinters would routinely win marathons. In any case I would think the fingers are less likely to get strained/tired if aided by a relaxed arm. [/b]
Surely pianist with their hours of practice and 90 minute programs are closer to marathon runners than sprinters? So yes, maybe I'm talking about endurance and stamina.

 Quote:
Originally posted by etcetra:
My teacher used to say that if your hands are getting tired from practicing then you're probably doing something wrong. [/b]
That's interesting but simply not true.
_________________________
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#540285 - 02/23/09 04:52 AM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
I think the whole comparison between pianists and atheletes are misleading.. how do you explain kids and 60 year olds playing Chopin etudes? how many 8 year old are physically fit enough to run a marathon?

If playing the piano requires that much endureance/power, than clearly adults will be in a advantage learning the piano, but that is simply not true, in fact, its often harder for beginning adults to learn how to play the piano than beginning children

Trumpet players can only practice for limited amount of time because of muscle fatigue.. Pianists on the other hand don't have that kind of limitation.. some ppl can practice 10 hrs a day with no problem.

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#540286 - 02/23/09 04:54 AM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
etc (his teacher) is quite right, O Pigeon-watcher ... what the guru is saying (to great applause from my corner) is AVOID TENSION ("something wrong") ... and thereby cancel out any weedy excuse of the hands getting tired from practising.

It is an interesting that "the Moment" often debilitates the performer ... whether caused by nervousness, sight-reading hang-ups, bad notes, lack of sleep, ill-health, lack of confidence, idealism ... and many other similar psychological bogies which pressure the mind to unnecessarily PULL ON BRAKES ... and shatter the flow.

What the teacher hasn’t told us is how to reach this ideal ... but at least has given etc a clue to free up the fingers ... and lighten up!!

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#540287 - 02/23/09 05:23 AM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Btb,

interesting comment..My last teacher I had did change my way of thinking about the piano... he was really into getting rid of any unnecessary tension/force from the playing and find the most efficient way of playing.. the focus should always be doing less to do more.

It doesn't mean you don't need finger muscle at all but instead of making the machine stronger and perform faster, why not focus more on make the machine more efficient?

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#540288 - 02/23/09 06:05 AM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
 Quote:
Originally posted by etcetra:
I think the whole comparison between pianists and atheletes are misleading.. how do you explain kids and 60 year olds playing Chopin etudes? how many 8 year old are physically fit enough to run a marathon?


Trumpet players can only practice for limited amount of time because of muscle fatigue.. Pianists on the other hand don't have that kind of limitation.. some ppl can practice 10 hrs a day with no problem. [/b]
Show me some 8 years olds playing etudes with vigour. As for practicing 10 hrs a day, you are obviously not going to go full tilt all the time - and there's your answer.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#540289 - 02/23/09 06:07 AM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
 Quote:
Originally posted by etcetra:

It doesn't mean you don't need finger muscle at all but instead of making the machine stronger and perform faster, why not focus more on make the machine more efficient? [/b]
Couldn't agree more, though why not do both?. I wouldn't listen to btb, he stays out in the sun far too long.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#540290 - 02/23/09 07:01 AM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Looking back over an eventful lifetime at those magical moments "when the act came together" ... in each case there was a sense of SUBLIME RELAXATION ... a mysterious super-confidence carried the day ... gone were all the negative vibes ... a moment to reach the stars.

During moments at sport, sketching, water-colours,piano playing, writing, architectural designing, problem-solving, etc ... there was a floating awareness of perfect timing ... with no conscious application of force.

Ease up on the brakes when you’re piloting a Ferrari ... use those horses you've got under the bonnet.

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#540291 - 02/23/09 12:59 PM Re: Building Finger SPEED (Power) - NOT STRENGTH!
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
What did I tell you about that mid-day sun on the veldt? Still you're quite right, let the body take care of it's business and the mind will be freed to observe.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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