Help me out here. I'm trying to understand what "musically gifted" means. What would separate a person you consider to be "musically gifted" from anyone else?

Jeanne W

Not me.

IMO, it refers to people who inately (or at least very easily acquire) have an ease with connecting with music. SO this can range from perfect and absolute pitch, to being at technical ease with the piano with very little effort.

i guess some top pianists (or other top musicians) in the world are musically gifted (or else they wouldn't be in that position), like Pollini or those kinds who has not only superb technical ability or virtuosity but also superb music sensitivity over music they play. i guess that there is only a few who has such a gift (not learned), and the most people, working as hard as they can, could never reach such a level in their life time.

TS and signa: Thanks for posting. Very interesting responses. I hope more will come.

Jeanne W

Pitch is one thing. I think a lot of it is being able to hear or play a piece and be able to grab the ideas and concepts and express it in ways that words fall short. In fact ... my words ... fall short ... now

It's not just one thing or another, it's a combination of traits I think, and that makes it so rare. But, at the same time, you know it when you hear it.

Ah, the Gift of Music. (Great film, by the way)

For me, playing the piano and cello have greatly enhanced my life. It has become a part of me, and has influenced many of my great moments. I am very appreciative for this gift of music. I have been blessed with the ability to make music, to discuss music, and to love music. I am indeed musically gifted.

My mother does not play any instrument. However, music has greatly enhanced her life as well. Listening to her children play the piano, cello, and guitar, singing, listening to CDs and the radio - she, too, has been blessed with the gift of music, and is indeed, in a sense, musically gifted.

"Musically Gifted" does not have to mean that you are a prodigy. $1,000,000 is certainly a mighty gift, but so is $18. The size of the gift doesn't matter - but the gift is important, and certainly all of us here on these forums have been blessed with our own gift of music.

So - we can all agree that Cziffra and Horowitz were musically gifted - just look at what they could do with their music! But the thing to remember is that we are all here musically gifted - we have been blessed with music, and for me, that is wonderful.

My musical gift came with a reciept...lol

You should want to return it?

how wondrously profound

Quite a few people have told me I'm 'musical' (whatever that means), but I'm certainly not gifted!

I think the musical bit means that you are able to naturally understand how music works and goes together; to be able to always see the musical sense of a group of notes so that you play phrases correctly and, well, musically (as opposed to mechanically).

The gifted bit just means you are very musical indeed.

Playing the instrument is just mechanics; it's making music that's the gift.

I think the former statement is more important, its about people who can play music, not just notes. (LL has great technique but usually poor musical standard)

Yesterday = 1yr of lessons for me! How time flies!


Anyhow, my take on musical gifts is that there are several types as many have mentioned. Some do have better fingers for piano than others. I'd say that's a gift. Others have a great ear. Others have superb rhythm. Some have great sensitivity and dynamics.

To me the greatest of the gifts would be a great ear. Many people think that ear pertains just to pitch but I take it the next step further to refer to hearing rhythmic patterns and being able to reproduce them as well.

I think the great jazz musicians are just playing what they hear inside themselves. And if you have that gift then the others flow so much more naturally.

Yet to have any of the gifts is important.

And let's not leave out the gift of desire. Because without that even the greats wouldn't be successful.

Work with what you have is how I see it..make the most of it. And above all...enjoy yourself...


Regards

to put in the most simple way, one who can do better than me can be considered as musically gifted :rolleyes:

it can be thought as in may ways for a gifted person in music, they play better, they learn faster, they hear music in a unique way that others are able to, they have great technique, they are productive under same amount of practice time, they sightread great, they can transpose in seconds.....any more that I can think of?

Would you say then, that all "musically gifted" individuals, when properly trained, would make good composers?

I would say that's very likely to be true. Though a great musician will not neccessarily make a great composer.

I would imagine that the gifts of a great ear..would dramatically facilitate musical composition.

I know a couple of people who can play sheet music outstandingly well, and yet I cannot bear to listen; they play like robots, or like a computer program that transcribes music. Totally emotionless.

Being musically gifted means to be able to play anybody's music your way: play your rubato, your improvisations, your ornaments, your differences in a completely natural way, and make the piece your own. There are few things that bore me so much as a "performer" who plays someone else's piece in someone else's style, with no regard for individuality. It all comes down to emotion; feeling the music.

I believe composing and improvisation are two more gifts; not inextricably linked with the "gift" of music. Being a performer is a gift in itself.

I recently realized that even if I'm not as talented as Horowitz et. al., with practice, I'll be able to play a few pieces as well as they do, and I'll be able to play many pieces like 80% as well as they do.

I can live with that.

"There are many ways of performing a given work. But the pianist must be convinced that his way is correct - that is what gives authority to his performance." -- Byron Janis

I think also that being able to sing really well is a tremendous musical gift. I think that helps all the other musical gifts develop as well. Imagine being able to be in complete control of a musical instrument like your voice practically without any practice or technique. Not to say that there isn't technique in singing but not near the degree as in learning a foreign instrument.

I don't want to say I'm musically gifted... but I was when I first started Piano (I'm not anymore.... I was probably just a quick learner.)

Within 6 months of Playing Piano, I could Play Fur Elise by beethoven, after 18 months, I could play Mozarts Fantasy in d minor K397 I think.

I would consider someone who is musically gifted as a 'fast learner at the piano.'

Imagine the following scenario:

A man studies piano for 30 years, beginning at the age of 5. Throughout those thirty years, he cannot play anything well at all, even technically easy pieces, he cannot sight-read well, he learns pieces slowly, has trouble remembering the notes, and does not pedal correctly. He practices 2 hours every day.

After 30 years, he has a breakthrough. By the time he is 50 years old, he can play almost as well as Vladimir Horowitz - performing the Rachmaninov and Brahms Piano Concerti, the Beethoven Sonatas, and Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit with the utmost ease and beauty. He can now sight-read exceptionally well, learns pieces very quickly, and has outstanding pedaling and fingering technique.

Is he musically gifted?

No, he's a figment of your imagination.

As far as I know, no such person exists.

Agreed. That scenario is a little wacky. If you spend alot of time at the piano, you will get better - regardless of how much actual effort is put in.

I know, I know... I was trying to exaggerate a little bit.

I guess my point/question is this: does someone have to be a prodigy in order to be musically gifted? Does somebody have to be an exceptional pianist to be musically gifted?

Having a perfect pitch has nothing to do with being muscially gifted. A friend of mine has a perfect pitch, and he has been playing piano for 12 years (he's 17) - and he is so musically retarded... A perfect pitch is a nice and helpful tool for those who want to be composers (and also singers), but it gives nothing to an individual's music interpretation ability, sense of touch, or anything else that makes a good pianist.

prodigy certainly won't hurt to be considered as musically gifted...but musically gifted person isn't necessary a prodigy...

pianojerome, your scenario is too strange, and it doesn't exist.

Uff that was sharp-edge

Well I guess being musically gifted doesn't necessarily involve putting the gift to use.

"There are many ways of performing a given work. But the pianist must be convinced that his way is correct - that is what gives authority to his performance." -- Byron Janis [/QB][/QUOTE]

Sam -
I'm gonna disagree with Janis for a minute here. I don't think that one should be convinced that his way of interpreting a work is
"correct" because "correct" (like best and worst) is an extremely subjective term - and art and subjectiveness contradict eachother. "Correct" is what we use to define the right answer to a math problem, but you can't say a certain interpretation of a work is "correct". I think a better quote would be "that artist must be sure that his way is CONVINCING"- because convincing is a word
which lends itself to millions of interpretations and all of them can be "correct"

Look at it this way: Horowitz and Arrau both recorded the 4th Ballade , can you tell me which one is "correct"?

Heh, this post was too long.

Carlos

I like Jerome's take on this entire thread. Being "musically gifted" shouldn't be something that people wish they were when they are having trouble with a difficult piece. I think that people who love music are generally musically gifted. They hear music everywhere, appreciate a wide variety of music, often play music, and anyone who loves music will usually play music with some level of beauty.

Can't resist addding my 2 cents. Based on the above and my own thoughts:

1) There is no single definition of gifted in terms of outcomes or certification, suggest we look at players in degrees or a continuum

2) There are probably only 5 really, really, great professional pianists in the 20th century (can you name them?); the rest are all excellent (looking at say the next 30 players who have concertized and recorded extensively)

3) Are only the top 5 (or make it 10) gifted?

4) Believe the best pianists have a combination of qualities, such as great eye/hand coordination, great taste about music/are very musical, and like all of us, have put in a lot of work.

It may be 90% persperation that lets us play difficult pieces, but its the 10% inspiration from those other qualities that really makes the difference IMHO.

A Godowski (sp?) played 10 or more hours a day - was he gifted? Many might think not.

Final Question: Does it matter? If some have to work hard, have the desire and the focus and perform well -- who cares?

By the way, this discussion is similar to athletics. The most naturally gifted athlete is not always the best. I'd take an athlete who has some good abilities and works really hard and thinks about what s/he is doing.

Ed

i'm curious about those 5, including one alive or died?

Most if not all are probably dead. Actually I was quoting David Dubal although he never listed them in his class.

Having been on PW for a little over a month, I just know there will be no universal agreement on who they are.

We're talking here about the most highly gifted.

Who goes first?

let me guess:

(dead)
Arrau
Horowitz
Rubinstein
Rachmaninov/Hofmann(?)

(living)
Pollini

Pianojerome: no, he is not gifted. He is merely someone who has persevered.

So "musically gifted" simply refers to the talent that one is born with?

Signa, I might add Richter, Cziffra, and Lipatti to that list.

Grane said there're only 5 really really great pianists in 20th century .

Would you really include Rubinstein and Arrau? (Especially in place of Richter and Lipatti, at least)

I haven't heard much of Pollini (just his Chopin Polonaises and bits and pieces of the etudes and preludes and Debussy preludes), but I'm not a big fan of what I've heard.

For me there are different types of musical gifts. Some people can improvise, some can sight read, some compose wonderfully, but can't perform, and then there are those who can play fantastically, but can they improvise or compose. Some make up music in their heads almost constantly, others think about form or fingerings. Some can pick up almost any instrument and make it sound beguiling. When we talk about musical gifts or musical intelligence it comes in many forms. There is no such thing as the generic musical gift.

In my case I can play pretty good, but I don't have the physical capability to play super fast, nor can I sight read my way out of a paper bag. But I hear music in my head all the time and sometimes I even write it down, learning to play it is another matter, but one I'm working hard at. My wife can sight read anything, but don't ask her to memorize anyuthing. We both have good ears, but I'm not si sure about her taste.

So just what do you mean by musically gifted?

I think that if you use it to your advantage, plus you can back it up with very proficient Piano Playing, it can help you learn songs a lot faster than normal.

Sometimes you can learn songs without even seeing the music. All you need to do is hear it.

Can be a great advantage.

Very interesting question, JeanneW. My immediate thought was that YOU have a musical gift. One that I do not. I have some skills and a lot of determination and love of music and playing, but I would never say or think I am musically gifted. But, I also like pianojerome's thinking. Maybe I have an $18 gift, but not a $1,000,000 one. Maybe I haven't uncovered or developed my *gift* yet. I do not think you have to be a prodigy to be gifted.

You could have picked up the talent along the way, or you could have been born with it.

I feel it is more to do with the way that you use the talent.

You might have been born with the genes of your parents who are both fantastic ice-skaters, and they gave you amazing balance. But until you try ice-skating yourself and practise, I don't think it can be perceived as a talent.

Very interesting responses, Everyone. It seems to me "musically gifted" would mean possessing some innate ability beyond what the average person - the majority of people - can do or is capable of doing. So the question becomes: what can the average person do? What is the average person's capabilities? But how can anyone really answer that question, without training a person first to see what they are capable of?

Wow. I just confused myself!

Teachum: I'm not so sure I've got special talents. And remember, you've never heard me actually play the piano. I'm self-taught and very undisciplined. I play most everything "half-baked". Now that I have a piano teacher (I've got all of about 5 lessons under my belt) - it is soooo alien to me to be practising the same piece of music every day for the past 5 weeks. I'm actually kind of flabbergasted this is what it takes!

Please keep the comments coming about what "musically gifted" may mean. I'm truly trying to get a grasp of what this means. Can anyone answer what the average person is capable of?

Jeanne W