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I hate piano competitions. I loathe them, in fact, because I think they turn playing the piano into something that is more like sports competition.

I also had the interesting experience of talking to a fine player who finished 3rd in one of the Moscow Competions (meaning in that competition one year). I like his playing far more than the people who won. It was daring, original, but he was not quite as note-perfect as the winner, who sounded very cold to me.

Later, he won a major competition. He stated to me, in almost these exact words, that he had to get rid of everything that was "him" in order to play to the judges.

Lets also remember that Pogorelich got *his* start because of a scandal. Argerich was on the jury and was furious when he was not even admitted as one of the finalists.

BUT: I've also been given information (which I believe) that says that Richter was so impressed with Cliburn in Moscow that he bucked the establishment by backing him. And the more I hear recordings of Cliburn from that period, the more I am impressed by his playing.

I don't believe he was doing nothing more than imitating his teachers. His playing was too striking, too original. His recording of the Rachmaninov 2nd Sonata, available on You Tube, sounds very different to me from any other recordings I've heard, I don't believe for a moment that ANY of his teachers could have mastered that beast well enough to have spoon-fed it to him.

I believe that Cliburn suffered from burnout. That in itself is tragic, and I do blame competitions and hype for possibly destroying his joy in playing, but I think he was a huge talent.

I think I remember reading from one of his interviews that he stopped performing because he loved going to the local operas, but he still practices every night because he loves to play.

Come on, we are not talking about big competition for madtc2000. If by this time madtc2000 has never placed in any competition, we know that he or she is just an ordinary person. If I were madtc2000, I would have taken other major for my master.

I don't get the connection to "ordinary person" and "not placing in any competition".

RonaldSteinway -

There are hundreds and hundreds of pianists in this country who have earned Masters degrees in Piano Performance, Accompanying or Pedagogy (as well as Doctor of Musical Arts Degrees in same) who have rewarding and successful careers as teachers and performers. The vast majority of them have never participated in competitions - nor do they need to. While these folks don't achieve national or international recognition, they play an important role in the musical life of our commnities. The assertion that pianists who don't participate in competitions should consider a profession other than music - IS ABSURD.

Just wanted to say, I attended UM-Twin Cities as a music major (on trombone) for three semesters, then transferred to UW-Eau Claire, because of their renowned jazz program, and because I realized that at UM the grad students monopolized all the best opportunities. But of course for you that would be a good thing.

I agree with the other poster's comments; it's a good music school with some very fine faculty, and the Twin Cities is indeed an awesome place. Not so big to have the issues of NYC or Chicago, but still a major metro area with a ton of great culture going on. For that reason alone I'd place it above the smaller towns on your list.

You haven't mentioned jazz, but I'd caution you against UM if jazz is at all important to you. Maybe their program has changed dramatically in the last several years, but when I was there it was an afterthought at best.

Carey,

Very few people who earned MM or DM in piano have never competed in any piano competitions. Most of them did compete, they just did not win. Everybody in piano industry knows that placing in any competition, regardless how small it is, is very important in opening many doors in his or her music career.

Look at the biography of piano professors, nearly all of them won or placed in a competition. Even Lang Lang, before he became famous, competed in several piano competitions.

To me those who oppose to the virtue of competition is because they are affraid of the reality! To be successful in the piano industry requires a lot. Going to school alone without recognition will not allow people to notice you. There are so many people have advance degrees, therefore, additional recognition is important.

For those who cannot place in a competition, going to obtain a master degree is becoming necessary.

What I mean people were talking as if madtc2000 is going to compete in Van Cliburn or something like that. The competitions that we are aiming for madtc2000 should be a much smaller one.

Ronald -

Apparently you and I are approaching this from different realities.

Years ago I earned a Masters degree in Piano Performance from a reputable University music school, did some doctoral work, and taught piano at the college level for six years. During that time it never occured to me to participate in a competition. I didn't feel that I needed it to advance my career. I've known other highly successful pianists who have similar backgrounds. But obviously your own personal experience has been different than mine...which is fine - so lets just call a truce and move on to another topic.

Thank you all for your input on this topic...even though we got quite off topic, lol!. Anyway I apologize to all those who thought that I came off as being ignorant and crass as I did not mean to. I was merely frustrated that the second post of a topic that asks about going to grad school was more about competing than getting a good education. Anyway, sorry to frustrate you all. Another thing that frustrated me quite a bit was those who immediately began to judge my playing without ever hearing me play a single note. I am no slouch when it comes to piano. I fill you in on who I am.

I started playing piano at age 14. I taught myself the first movement of the Beethoven Moonlight and performed it to great success at an 8th grade talent show. I then decided I wanted to pursue piano even further. A piano teacher at a local college overheard me playing the Hut at Baba Yaga from Mussorgsky's "pictures" and asked if I wanted to come study with him...needless to say I did. From there he taught me to play Grieg's A minor piano concerto, Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2 and 12, Beethoven Appassionata, Bach WTC Preludes and Fugues (book i mostly), etc. From there I decided I wanted to apply to major in piano in college as I was preparing an audition for Juilliard and Manhattan but that was put on hold due to my father getting cancer and dieing so I applied to a little community school as my only choice. My audition for Juilliard and Manhattan would've consisted of:

Chopin: Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante

Beethoven Appassionata

Bach WTC Bk.1 Prelude and Fugue in F Major

Liszt's Waldesrauschen from two concert etudes

Anyway I lost track of everything when my dad got ill so I came to this small school. My teacher had suggested that I enter competitions but they've just never interested me.

This particular topic has sparked my interest in competitions, thanks to all those who commented :p . If you all have any suggestion of competitions that you think I should enter tell me. I've been seriously been considering the International Piano E-Competition as the twin cities aren't far from here and maybe the Gina Bachauer international piano competition as well as some small concerto competitions.

Anyway, thanks to all you who posted good comments and boo to all you who judged my playing without hearing me. Anyway, you guys have opened my eyes a little bit and i want to thank you for that.

btw...sorry for the life story

Actually the life story was helpful. You've come a long way with the instrument in a short amount of time. If you stay focused and work hard, good things will come to you. Good luck !

There are so many small competitions. Trust me, it does not hurt winning a competition. You have to take this competition thing as an additional recognition. If you can win or place, it is very good, but if you don't, just move on...At least, you have tried. Those two competitions that you mentioned are big competition. If I were you, I would try the Washington DC competition first or Van Cliburn Outstanding Amateur Competition. If you want to get instant publication, you may want to join Van Cliburn You Tube Competition. Don't think it is easy to win, some of them are very good. The winner of the first VC Youtube competition used to compete in the real VC competition in 1997.

Sorry, I think you are too young for VC competition. You need to be at least 35 to be eligible. Try the Paris one then..

I can recommend Colorado at Boulder- there's a very famous Daniel N. Baker there. He pops up every time I google myself.