Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Why hire a teacher?

I don't understand the need for a teacher, but I don't want to influence others' decision, since I still may be wrong. But I have a compelling argument.

I am self-taught. I started learning the piano 3 monhts ago, and I have learned a number of pieces already. I am 29 years old, and practice about 1 hour 3 times a week.

I have a chord reference chart, and have read some books and watched some videos.

How is a teacher different from books and videos. The notes to be played and fingering are already shown on the sheet music where necessary. The books and videos teach me all I need to know and are always there to refer to.

All this argument would be invalid if it didn't work, but for me and my sisters, it works. We just decided we would rather spend the money on materials, so we didn't hire a teacher. If we have questions, we come to a forum like this. But even those, we can find them in books if we read more, but forums also fun.

Books are written by teachers, with everything we need to know to play up to intermediate level. So what can a teacher tell me that I can'f find in books to learn up to intermediate level? My experiences as an adult beginner says, "Nothing!." What do tou think?

I think that there are things to learn from a teacher but there are some excellent examples of folks who have been virtually entirely self-taught (e.g. Roger Williams, Leopold Godowsky).

A good teacher can probably move you through what you need to learn faster and with better understanding of what it is that you are doing.

I was without a teacher for a time when I was young, and found it frustrating that I couldn't get to the next level of performance skill. I spent hours a day practicing - but it seemed that there was a ceiling on the quality of my playing. Once I had a teacher on board, I learned a lot more about "what I didn't know" and needed to learn. I didn't have to "unlearn" my mistakes and my playing more closely resembled those people I had heard in recitals and on recordings.

At a master class I attended, I heard a pianist play a flawless performance; every note and nuance captured. I immediately thought, "what can the teacher say about that?" Her first words were, "well, this is a great place to begin..." When she was done with the student, the performance was better. That's what a great teacher can do.

There are folks on both sides of the equation on this board so if you're looking for support of your notion, you'll probably find it. Personally, I found a good teacher added immeasuably to my enjoyment of music.

For me it is like saying, why do I need anything other than soy beans, when they will provide all the nutrition I need? Yeah, but...

Ken

I am sure others will have much to say on this, but I just want to point out that playing the right notes with the right fingering is not the end. You may argue that intepretation and musicality can be self-taught, and for many adults that is true to some extent.

Apart from the obvious reason that having a good teacher will speed up your progress, something that is not often mentioned is that without a teacher to show you how, you might have difficultly producing a beautiful tone, or varying your tone to suit the type of music. You might find yourself limited in pedalling technique. And you might never be able to break a certain speed barrier. These things distinguish good playing from ordinary music-making. If this does not matter to you, then you can gain a lot of satisfaction and sense of achievement by being self-taught.

It never ceases to amaze me how people with no experience in something can ascertain the validity of their perspective and subsequent conclusion.

Why don't you get a teacher for 6 months, and then make an informed decision, instead of hoping that others here will justify your position?

Unless you have had quality instruction from an established, trained teacher (not your neighbor's kid), you are in no position to comment on the benefits of NOT having a good teacher.

BTW - Godowsky was a great teacher himself, taught in the U.S. and somewhere in Europe as I recall. In the U.S. he was at the Chicago Conservatory around the turn of the previous century. Don't know that he was "self-taught," but if so I don't think he would have recommended that road for others!

:rolleyes:

Everyone make a good point, but also, remember that although a video or book can tell you a good deal on a how to sit and play, there's nothing like a person there to actually critique everything as you probably have flaws in your technique that no video can see. Also, I haven't come across a video that deals with proper interpretation of Bach or Mozart or etc.

Still, I can undertand that reading music doesn't have to take a doctorate with years of schooling and exerpience that charges $40 a half hour to teach you. In such a case, most videos and books are a good primer for a good teacher. Eventually you'll have to get one.

Mike

As is known from another thread, I say if there's no other way, then by all means go ahead and teach yourself as much as you can. Pick up as much as you can from as many sources as you can find.

Having said that, here are a few things a good teacher can supply: 1) Example. It is amazing how much we learn by example and seeing an accomplished pianist demonstrate up close is valuable indeed; 2) Confidence. A good teacher can help you build confidence about your playing*; 3) Objectivity. We do not always hear our playing as it sounds to another pair of ears.

* It must also be said that a bad or insensitive teacher can go a long way towards destructing a positive outlook.

It never ceases to amaze me how people with no experience in something can ascertain the validity of their perspective and subsequent conclusion. - rvaga

LOL

IMO, the answer to your question is pretty obvious. Very simply, a teacher can see your posture and technique...Books and videos can't. A teacher can answer your questions directly...Books and videos require a lot of look-up and then you still may not find exactly the answer you're looking for. A teacher can clearly explain things to you as well as make the necessary observations to ensure that you are not only learning the basics, but you are also learning the many different ways to strike a key or use the pedal in order to produce those beautiful sounds...Books and videos can't. A teacher can also make sure that the technique you are using is one in which you won't end up with a serious injury...Books and videos can't.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best in your learning.

Lyn B.

Curiously enough, the really priceless things I gained from my two early teachers had nothing to do with technique or knowledge of facts. Looking back, I probably could have acquired these things by myself, although certainly more slowly. What I could never have done was understand where I ought to consider going in music and why. Certain conceptions I had nurtured in my youth were quite incorrect and had I hung on to them they would have stunted progress, not to mention enjoyment.

Sometimes one remark from an experienced person is all it takes to dispatch a chimera of misunderstanding. Also, unlike most of my musical contemporaries, I was a very diffident youth. I needed somebody to reveal that I was capable of a heck of a lot more than I imagined I was.

So I think it is in this intangible area of aesthetics, of continually working from the mind, that the benefits of studying with a teacher lie. It's not so much a matter of which fingers go where as a question of exactly why we are making all this effort in the first place.

Finally, surely it has to be said that a pupil/teacher relationship should be something a little less mundane than paying a sum of money in exchange for time and information.

I beg to differ. I think there is a lot to learn from a teacher that the self-learner often overlooks totally. What about elements like tone or cantabile playing? Hard to learn on your own, IMHO.

GET A LIFE. OR A TEACHER

Trixie and Magnezium, I would have to hear it to believe it. I once had a student audition for lessons who had basically tought herself Beethoven's Op. 49 No. 2 1st movement. She was so proud of herself and I just didn't have the heart to tell her it was aweful, truly aweful. Sure, she could play most of the notes, but there was no rhythm, sense of pulse, expression, or anything that made it sound the least bit like music. She had been "tought" (if you can call it that) through a fast track video series, so she had her video tapes and CDs to listen to. But it is so hard for people to hear themselves objectively, especially when there has been no real training...

Great points made on this thread. rvaga nailed what is a real pet peeve of mine

Ryan

hmmm...what I said was actually quite different from what trixie said...

anyway, just thought I'd share my experience. When I met my first teacher for an audition, I played him Schumann's Arabesque. It was pretty much flawless, save a few careless mistakes. Even in terms of pulse and expression, it was pretty much there. But when my teacher played the piece back to me, I realised so much was missing in terms of the sound I was producing.

Gee . . . I didn't take trixie's comment as seriously as did others. I thought she was being a bit tongue-in-cheek.

Personally, I wish I had access to my teacher not only for my weekly lesson, but for my daily practice sessions as well. Wouldn't trade him for all the books and videos in the world. Of course, he might prefer a good book to me (ha, ha).

Magnezium, I thought trixie was being toungue-in-cheek too, which is why I thought I was agreeing with both of you. Oh well, that's what I get for being up so late I am not even sure what I wrote... :rolleyes:

Ryan

Both Ryan and Rvaga have excellent points. Like Ryan, I have heard ATROCIOUS performances by students who taught themselves to play a particular song (seems to happen a lot with Fur Elise!). Rvaga came to the root of the problem: they think they know what they don't really know. And they're so proud, too! It's hard to know how to comment on such performances without taking all of the air out of the student's sails.

I would recommend that you find a teacher, because without one you leave yourself NO room for human error. You may think you know what you need to know, but do you really? Without a teacher (who unquestionably knows more than you know), how will you ever find out? In addition to your own potential for human error - without the proper education to back you - you are not able to judge the quality of information contained in the instructional books & videos. You might be surprised to find out that a lot of published "instruction" is inaccurate!

I really don't mean to discourage you, and Ryan is right...if there's absolutely no alternative, then by all means do what you can to educate yourself. Much of my trepidation comes from my experience with a particular 'self-taught' pianist. Recently, she "lowered" a song from D major to E flat. She had it in her mind that sharps are 'higher' and flats are 'lower'. She assumed that moving the song to a flat key automatically made it lower. It never occurred to her that Eb is HIGHER than D major! In fact, I don't think she knew WHAT key she was playing in. The only thing she knew was that sharps go up and flats go down. It's heartbreaking to hear her play (she has a lot of other MAJOR problems...like not knowing any minor chords or sharp key signatures). HOWEVER, to untrained ears she sounds GOOD. She plays across several octaves and uses a lot of arpeggios. She simply plays wrong. And she genuinely has no idea.

If you can, find a good teacher. You won't regret it.

April

First, let me thank you all for your prompt responses. I couldn't believe I had 17 responses in just a few hours. I hope I haven't wasted your time. The answer seem to be subjective, and depends onthe individual's goal in learning to play the piano. So I should have told you what my goal is to make it easier to give the responses.

Like I said, I am self-taught up to this point (3 monhts, roughly.) My gaol is to play my dream pieces as I heard them on my CDs. I don't worry about musicality, tone, creativity, etc. I just want to play as close to the sheet music (or my CDs.) And so far, the way I play satisfies me as much as when I listen to pianists' CDs. I listen to the CDs as I attempt a piece, so I know where to make it soft and loud, etc. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in tones, etc. The challenge to make my playing sound as close to the actual music satisfies me in itself.

Since I am attempting the slower, easier pieces (but as beautiful as the others), I usually suceed. You may realize I play awefully if you hear me play, but others with no such extensive piano knowledge as yours will certainly think I sound great. I tried it on my friends who are have heard the pieces but have no music training.

For the musically-educated, there are more things to consider. So as mony of you said, there is NO QUESTION I will soon need a teacher soon to get the most out of such a wonderful hobby; that is, to understand what lies beyond the notes, and of course to speed up my learning to get to the intermediate level.

In the meantime, I will cherish the materials. Let me add that although materials can not see my posture, but they teel you about posture. If you do it right as suggested, I don't see how that can be different from a teacher. My difficulties arise from lack of practice, and as I put practice into it, I am finding that I learn faster with no second wasted. Some of us adult beginners have so much strong determination, motives and endurance, and we love every challege and every minute at the piano. I am sure many will agree.

Again, it depends on your goal, among other things like finding time to learn by a teacher, but a teacher is DEFINITELY a plus especially if you have lack of inspiration or ability to learn quickly.

God, I have said too much. Talk to you later.

And thanks again all your responses. One thing is evident. Wheather you need a teacher or not is a matter of your goals and amount of determination to learn, many perspectives and experiences. I apologize for implying many things from my experience that may not apply even to me in the future as I will be needing more technique and understanding, and therefore some guidance.

Thanks.

Hi, BeethBaChopin:

If you have one handy, it might be useful to supplement your own work by taping yourself. I've done that on occasion when I really wanted to polish up something, and it was always a huge eye-opener (both good and bad things popped out).

You don't need to create a high-quality tape, just enough quality to be able to really hear yourself clearly. I used to use an old portable cassette player with the condenser mic that is part of the player itself, to give you an idea. (It sounded atrocious, but it was a great teaching tool.)

Nina

A piano teacher will:

-keep you progressing (If you have a lesson coming you will tend to practice regularly)
-help you solve problems more quickly. The solutions are often not where you expect them.
-provide an audience which will help you play for others.
-introduce you to new literature
-give you a duet partner
-give you a personal live performances
-if you go to their house or studio, give you a different (possibly better) instrument to play on.

Just a few other reasons. Remember even Tiger Woods takes golf lessons!

Realize that by the time you seek a teacher you may have so ingrained your bad habits that it might take longer for a teacher to help you relearn them than it would have been for you to learn them right in the first place. In some cases the damage is not repairable without taking several steps back. In most cases students give up at this point because the task of relearning how to do things correctly (thus allowing them to play intermediate and more advanced music) is too daunting.

I note that you keep saying things that start with "I don't see how a teacher could ...." Of course, you have never had a teacher. Perhaps if you studied with one for 6 months as rvaga suggested then you might me able to see how a teacher could ....

Best wishes,

Ryan

I have been an advocate for self-teaching all along, as some of you may remember (hi, Ryan ). So it may surprise you that, just before you wrote all the posts in this thread, I had decided to try the other side and call a piano teacher, which I did this afternoon. My very first lesson is next Thursday!
The most important reason for my turnabout is that I kept on doubting if I wouldn’t progress faster with a teacher than on my own, and I’m getting rather impatient about it, too. And the thought that this doubt might haunt me till my dying day, was very depressing. My husband said the same thing rvaga does: why not see how it goes for half a year. And I think I’m experiencing some of the same feelings kluurs had when he was on his own. I’m also pleased that magnezium finds his teacher valuable, as I remember he one time long ago said he thought he could do without. So all your posts have made me more confident that I made the right decision.

If you guys like, I could keep you all up-to-date on how it goes when a self-taught person finally takes the plunge and gets a piano teacher.

Thea

Hi Sparrow,

Glad you jumped in Please keep us up to date. I for one would love to read about your experiences on the other side of the fence, so to speak.

I think the true indicator of whether you made the right decision will be your own experience. And, I truly hope it is a great experience for you!

Ryan

P.S. If all goes according to plan it looks like I am starting lessons again next spring. It's never too late

Sparrow:
Congrats on your new endeavor!!! IMHO, there is no substitute for a good teacher. (For me, it was [ & honestly still is] difficult for me to be objective about my own playing.)

I've had both good & not so good teachers -- But mostly good, so -- I'm curious how you went about finding an instructor. Most of my teachers were good, but then I think about one particular teacher (who I had for a very short time in grade school) who should be banned from touching a piano -- let alone teaching it!! If your 6 months experienced is based on someone such as her, it would be very unfortunate.

Best of Luck!!!!!
Brad

Hi Sparrow,

Congratulations!!! I'm sure you won't regret your decision. Please do keep us posted about how it's going for you. I wish you the very best!

Lyn B.

I would also like to hear about your selection process.

Good luck with your lessons, Sparrow!

Hi, BeethBaChopin:

Sometimes a decision as to whether or not to study with a teacher is influenced by monetary factors. I know that you didn't mention cost as a factor in your decision, and I don't want to imply that cost does play a role in your case. Nevertheless, I think it's worth mentioning that some community music schools offer lessons at reduced prices to motivated/talented students under certain circumstances - just in case you ever decide to do a cost/benefit analysis on the merits of lessons.

Enjoy your music . . . Linda

oopz...guess I must have read wrongly then...

hmm...I know I'm going to get in trouble, but I read BeethBaChopin's profile. This person is an engineer. Not meaning to cast anything -- but I've had two engineer friends who felt as he/she did. One of these folks was a classical guitarist who took up the piano. At first, he too was working with videos and books. I think there is a sense of satisfaction that some folks have in taking on certain subjects with the "manual." Kind of like climbing Everest - man versus the mountain...

After a few weeks on his own, my friend tried a teacher and hasn't been without one since. He's made incredible progress over the past 2 years. His current teacher, a Julliard graduate, says that she's never had an adult student make such progress.

If you've had a successful life learning independently, it seems a bit odd to do the pedagogical thing. It also seems odd to some folks that I probably have 30 recordings of the Beethoven Appassionata Sonata. Isn't there one right way to play it?

So back to the question, learning piano is less like learning to type -- and more like becoming a champion diver. To be good, it helps to build upon the learning of those who have come before, to have an independent view of what is going on. Most of the knowledge of the field is not written in books but captured in teaching traditions.

The fact that music involves another type of learning, other than book learning is a great opportunity. I think that's why you hear from so many people endorsing it. It doesn't mean that every teacher is great or that everyone must do things the same way. Quite the contrary, good teachers help you find your way -- and not everyone follows precisely the same path...

Russell Sherman does a good job of explaining the relationship between teacher and student in his book Piano Notes -- recommended.

If you choose not to do the pedagogical thing...you deprive yourself of a different kind of learning experience...not terrible...others have done it -- but you'll likely miss out on learning "what you don't know..."
Ken

I think I am going to dismiss my piano teacher and continue learning on my own. Once I enter <your most prestigous music school here> , I shall write a book and share the secrets of learning piano WITHOUT a teacher.

Actually there is already a book out there about this. The author tried to promote it on rec.music.makers.piano on the usenet. Very clever marketing strategy, unfortunately for him, people are not stupid.

OH....RYAN,
You hit the nail right on the head! Fixing bad habits is a MAJOR UNDERTAKING!

Thanks for all your encouraging words!

Brad, Linda: how I found my teacher? Well, I didn’t dig very deep. I noticed someone at the piano-L newsgroup lives not very far from us, and I asked his advice. He had recently moved here too, so could only tell of one bad experience for his wife’s lessons, and one good. And this good piano teacher lives very close to my village, about 3 miles, so I can go to lessons by bike. All I know about her is that she has attended conservatory, taught for 30-plus years, has a piano, a grand and a harpsichord, and she sounded very nice and knowledgeable over the phone (and she doesn’t smoke).

I think I’ll start a new thread tomorrow night: “Sparrow’s first piano lesson”.…

I think I am out of excuses not to try a teacher. So I am planning on getting one.

Let me stress the usefulness of piano materials though.

Some of these books and videos are written by perhaps the best teachers of piano. They're always there (schedule flexibility), they can be used by many students (no" your time is up"), I just can't say enough goo dthings about them.

Learning away from the teacher shows your determination. Personal efforts are a must. Let's also remember that there have been many self-taught great piano amateurs and pros. We have heard from them here.

Anyway, I am planning on recording myself playing the 10 plus pieces I have learned so far, as someone here suggested, and go to a teacher for evaluation, and suggestions. I will do that at the beginning and end of a new set of pieces (a repertoire) I learn.

This works best for me , but I am open to other suggestions. Thanks, guys!

Sparrow: Sounds like a super start!!

BeethBaChopin: I don't think anyone would put down the tools you have used so far, they sound great. As Ken mentioned, though, they're just not the same. GOOD LUCK with lessons! -- I would be willing to bet you'll really enjoy them with a good teacher.

_Brad

Hey Beeth...- missed the whole discussion as I've been out of state (ill parents- can anyone relate??) Anyway- fo for it. I live just east of Atlanta and have been an adult student for 4 1/2 years. I have also hosted an informal "recital" for adult piano students- though family issues required me to back out this fall. Please feel free to contact me if you'd like more info on what I've learned or on the adult get togethers.

Beth