In general I have some technical difficulties when I have play pp. It occurs more often when chords are being played. My problem is that sometimes when I try to play pp some of the notes don't sound. I don't like using the soft pedal much because I don't particularly like the tone when it is used and I feel I should be able to play very softly and have the notes sound consistently,i.e. it is a technical shortcoming if I can't accomplish this.

Any suggestions?

if as you say some notes arent sounding, but the others are sounding quietly, then try move your hand towards the notes not sounding a tiny bit, as you depress

Perhaps try playing the same chord several times, each time voicing (bringing out) a different note in the chord, then lastly play with all the notes even. Do this all at a mezzo forte volume, with the voiced note being forte. Then do it again at MP for the non voiced notes and MF for the voiced note. Then again P for non-voiced and MP for voiced, then PP and P. This last one is the ideal, because you always want to have voicing in a chord. Usually, however, the top note should be voiced in chords.

You don't want to use the soft pedal because that simply changes the color of the sound, and should not be used to substitute for PP.

Also, when you play softly, you can sometimes press the keys down too slowly so that it will not sound. To correct this, you should be sure that the note that didn't sound is pressed down a bit faster. Follow through the the motion with the wrist to give you more control.

It could be also that your piano is in need of being regulated, but let's assume the problem is with you .

I just realize how hard it is to play softly when I am practicing Chopin's Nocturne #13 in C minor. Hitting 200+ chords a minute with both hands at PP, and with an embedded melody as well....

I always have to remind myself that dynamics are determined by the rate of speed at which the keys depress, not how much force is put into them. In other words, I can't think "light" so much as "slow" into the keys. If I think light, I'll get an uneven, some-of-the-notes-don't-sound thing you described. Course, this only really works for chords. I still struggle with pp passagework myself.

Being both a player and tech, I would say that your technique for this particular issue will never improve if your piano is not in top notch regulation. David Stanwood, in explaining what his inventions do for the action of a piano, makes a very interesting analogy. Imagine your keyboard is a set of steps and you are a dancer. Now, imagine that your task is to glide lightly up and down the stairs, sideways, but do it both gracefully and smoothly. If the stairs are all even in height, then all that is needed to accomplish this task would be a certain level of precision and proficiency on your part as a dancer. But, what if the stairs were all different heights....one was 10 inches, the next 13", the next 9"....etcetera. It would become apparent very quickly that, no matter how good your technique, you would always be required to compensate for the asymmetries of the stairs. Ultimately, no matter how you may try, this would lead to unevenness and slow you down. This is exactly what happens with a piano that is not optimally regulated. Even with optimum regulation, there are inherent asymmetries like hammer weights and friction that can only be addressed with a higher level of modification to the piano. Once you play such a piano, however, you will realize all that it can make available to you as a player.

Although a particular word association may be helpful for you, I don't think there's any difference. If you play with great force you will automatically have to strike the note fast.

I have a new Mason BB so I don't think it's the regulation, I think it's me. And as much as I admire Stanwood's accomplishments, I don't think an action has to be Stanwoodized to be able to play pp consistently.

The technique I've been taught and am trying to master is that you actually press more instead of less. It's kind of a paradox. But you have to press with your arm into the key to get proper and singing quality tone, but you just do it at a slow rate. Try it and you'll see what I mean. It's kind of tough to explain these things online.

pianoloversus said:

I have a new Mason BB so I don't think it's the regulation, I think it's me. And as much as I admire Stanwood's accomplishments, I don't think an action has to be Stanwoodized to be able to play pp consistently.[/b]

Two thoughts on your comments. First, virtually NO new piano comes optimally regulated from the manufacturer. Dealers like Allegro and Cunningham Pianos carry some of the most lauded and prestigious brands on the planet, INCLUDING Mason, Estonia, Bosie and Bluethner, and they spend days on each one to get them up to optimum[/b] standards. Secondly, I did not mean to insinuate that one could not play a consistent pp without Stanwoodizing their piano. What I am referring to, again, is OPTIMIZATION of the action. In other words, getting the absolute most out of it that one is capable of. It's like when my patients tell me that they get all the nutrients they need from the food they eat, so supplements are a waste. My answer is, you must first qualify what the definition of "everything I need" is. If it's just the ability to sustain life and do everyday tasks, then this statement is quite true. But, if the goal is OPTIMUM health and well being, then there is a whole different level we must consider. Most likely your technique is responsible for the vast majority of the difficulty you are having, but, IF your piano is not optimally regulated, then you are certainly not helping your cause. And yes, you are also absolutely correct that not everyone needs, or should have, their piano modified to a Stanwood PTD.

my babies are kids now. i've had years of playing as soft as possible.. you learn after a while.

I am so afraid that someone will hear me that I seem to always play softly. It is playing loud that I find difficult. Gaby Tu

Often the problem is that you're simply trying to play too softly! The thing that really makes your playing colourful is not the absolute level of sound you produce, but the contrast. So try finding the softest level that you're comfortable with, and then focus on making your forte playing fuller and richer so that you have a wide range.

I had the exact same problem you're having and it took me nearly 20 years to find the answer.

Whilst there are some very good performance recommendations here for playing softly, I believe CC2 is right. The problem is probably at least 50% your piano. Even some respectable pianos when prepped to manufacturer's specifications do not allow optimal sound production with ease.

To me the give-away in your post is that some notes within a chord are difficult to play pp. That suggests a lack of evenness in down-weights that can be checked easily by your tech. There are other technical adjustments that can be done to make pianissimo playing easy and in greater contrast to louder tones. Unfortunately not all techs are as skilled at regulation as they should be, so you may have to shop around.

The reason it took me so long to really fix the problem, having tried multiple changes in hand position, speed, etc., is because my previous tech was a "tuner". He never came with a set of weights to measure down-weight, and I never even heard of this common practice until I changed to a technician with skill at regulation and voicing, not just tuning.

This was also well before the internet, so there wasn't a lot of readily available information on piano regulation.

If the piano is out of regulation that can make playing difficult. This is true even with a new piano. Once that's been taken care of, the biggest thing to playing softly is relaxation. If you're tense, there's no way you can play softly without difficulty so try being absolutely relaxed through out your arms and neck then play. You'll find you have more control over the tone.

I can say this from experience as I've been fighting a neuro-muscular disorder that causes stiffness and rigid muscles, I find that the more relaxed I am, the better things move including my hands, arms and fingers.

John

...But there is a difference. My point is, pushing lightly into the key will produce an uneven sound, whereas slow depression (to the bottom of the keybed) will produce a softer (and still even) sound.

Certainly the pianist's own technical ability is in most cases the limiting factor for soft and even playing. But - as I have experienced myself toghether with other forumists - also pianos differ and can make playing harder or easier.

Again we bump again the question of imperfect actions - bad designed actions - not properly regulated even at the despatch from factory.

But I cannot believe bad regulation being the cause when we speak about Bosies, Bechsteins, Faziolis, Steinways, and similars. Their high prices are partly due to the meticolous attention to details and perfect finish of the voicing and regulation. Why should a dealer have to correct or alter what the factory has done????

One thing is that transportation under severe climatic condition will have an adverse effect on any action. But that is something that normally will be corrected by itself.

The situation is really ridiculous. There is still a lot of inventive work to be done to improve todays actions generally and some brands' and models' actions especially, as there seem as a matter of fact to exist inconsistencys and too big variations in the touch feel, which then hamper the playing.

To-day, very good actions with logical responsibilty and good controllability of dynamics can be found on fairly cheap digital pianos. Some Yamaha U1 uprights have IMO had very satisfying actions. And my old Bechstein has an action that do not stand behind the very best of modern grands when be speak about controllability.

So why there are still poblems?

Has the focus been too much on the sound of aucustic pianos - a matter of taste and something that alway will vary because there are so many - partly uncontrollable - factors influencing the final result?

So the real difference you were talking about is pushing the key to the bottom of the keybed?

Let me clarify my post. I didn't mean to imply the same note(s) in a given chord were always difficult to make sound.

i'm sure you know, pianoloverus, that different hand positions produce different volumes. i find an even, fairly flat fingered, pressing forward position is consistently low volume.

In his DVD on Performing Impressionistic Piano Music, Maurice Hinson teaches that paradoxically, you need an very firm strong hand to effectively play pianissimo...

If you were dissatisfied with the answers that AZNpiano and I gave in the piano teachers' forum regarding your question, pianoloverus, you should have said so. We would have been able to clarify our positions, or give you further aid.

i've been wondering something about this topic as well...


i have a digital piano...which is alright, but is controlling dynamics on them harder than on real pianos?

Why did you think I was dissatisfied?

Stanza is right - you must not produce a pianissimo with feeble fingers. There must be some muscle tension to have a full control of the touch.

Flat hand and pressing forward?!? Hmmm... in fast passages there cannot be any pressing though.

One rule is never to play very deep in the keyboard (i.e. close to the fallboard), becasue playing gets heavier and it is more difficult to control the movement of the keys.

Sensitive tactile feed-back of what you are doing, which you achieve by carefully listening when playing scales and finger exercises at pp, is essential