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#544238 - 12/20/07 03:56 AM Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
Fleeting Visions Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1501
Loc: Champaign, IL
My family has just moved to Paris, France (without me, for I must finish school here), and I'm visiting for Christmas. I am now beginning to build my personal library and so I will purchase some sheet music of good quality and treat it carefully so that it can last a long time.

I was recommended to get a score of Debussy's Preludes from Durand. I found that Salabert also was sold where I was going to purchase the Durand.

What might you recommend that I get in addition to the Debussy? I have heard a great deal, both good and bad, about Cortot's Study Editions, available from Salabert.

And, finally, what experience do you have with the Sauer edition of Liszt's works from Peters Edition? I have had experience with the Sonata, which was the most useful edition I'd seen, and I'd seen most that are available. Its fingerings and other comments were invaluable.

Thanks for reading,

Daniel
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#544239 - 12/20/07 04:16 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5559
Loc: Orange County, CA
I have a few Durands and Salaberts in my library (mostly copyrighted 20th century music). They are by far the worst editions I have--BY VERY FAR!! The print is unclear (look like copies of copies of copies). The typeface is ancient. They have page turns at illogical places, or unnecessary page turns (i.e., a 2-page piece should NEVER be printed on the same piece of paper front and back). I don't think any of it has been computerized. The spacing is haphazard--some pieces are squeezed together, while others are scattered wide apart. None of my Durand or Salabert editions has editorial advice on how to perform the pieces. It's just print music, and it isn't even very good quality print music.

I think they just want to make money until the international copyright runs out. I don't sense any effort on their part to provide a quality product. They can charge a lot of money because they hold the sole copyright to a lot of modern works.
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#544240 - 12/20/07 10:44 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
L'echange Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 634
Loc: Romney WV
My Durand edition of Messiaen's Regards is great!
_________________________
"Beauty is unbearable, drives us to despair, offering us for a minute the glimpse of an eternity that we should like to stretch out over the whole of time."

-Albert Camus,

Jim

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#544241 - 12/20/07 11:13 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
I have to agree with AZNpiano above. The Durand editions I have are by far the worst in terms of legibility, layout and indeed value for money.

MWB.
AoS.
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#544242 - 12/20/07 11:22 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
Auntie Lynn Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: San Francisco, CA
I have a ton of both these editions, some of which are pretty ancient (read: oversize). It must be kept in mind that D & S were frequently the composer's own publishers and the reliability of the markings is pretty secure. I just got back from Paris - don't miss FNAC...

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#544243 - 12/20/07 11:36 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8928
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
The Durand editions I have are by far the worst in terms of legibility, layout and indeed value for money.
I'll agree with Michael. Durand editions can be very flimsy and tend to fall apart sooner than later.

Since Durand publish a lot of important organ music, there's a lot of grumbling about this on the Organ Forum.
_________________________
Jason

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#544244 - 12/20/07 11:55 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
I have to agree with AZNpiano above. The Durand editions I have are by far the worst in terms of legibility, layout and indeed value for money.

MWB.
AoS. [/b]
Same here. Very difficult to negotiate with the page turns, and very expensive even way back when I got them 25-plus years ago!

John
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#544245 - 12/21/07 04:11 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5559
Loc: Orange County, CA
On the topic of page turns...

My Henle Urtext edition of the Mozart sonatas chose several page turns when the left hand has rests. Obviously, whoever laid out the pages had the performer in mind!!

And speaking of falling apart, my Kalmus edition of the Scarlatti sonatas had its cover come off today. Cheaps staples...can't hold a cardstock cover in place...
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#544246 - 12/21/07 11:40 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
John Citron Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 3925
Loc: Haverhill, Massachusetts
 Quote:
Originally posted by AZNpiano:
On the topic of page turns...

My Henle Urtext edition of the Mozart sonatas chose several page turns when the left hand has rests. Obviously, whoever laid out the pages had the performer in mind!!

And speaking of falling apart, my Kalmus edition of the Scarlatti sonatas had its cover come off today. Cheaps staples...can't hold a cardstock cover in place... [/b]
That's one of the nice traits of Henle editions. The engravers take great lengths to layout the pages so that the page turns, for the most part, are in reasonable places.

I hate to say it, this is a trait of the Kalmus editions. I think these are some of the worst on the market beause of this. All of mine have bindings that are too tight and the covers have fallen off of them as well exactly where yours have; at the staples. The other problem with many of them is that the music has been xerographiclly reproduced and sometimes shrunk down to fit the 8-1/2 x 11 (A4) page when it was originally printed on the over-sized pages. As a result, the music is sometimes diffcult to read.

As money permits, I've been slowly replacing my old Kalmus and Schirmer with better editions of the music.

John
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Nothing.

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#544247 - 12/21/07 01:01 PM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8928
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Then there's the dodgy situation with Dover editions. They're great for building up an inexpensive library of orchestral scores, but solo piano music?

Just flatten one out on the piano rack and watch it fall apart almost immediately. A particularly offensive example was promptly returned to the retailer.
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Jason

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#544248 - 12/21/07 01:12 PM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
I second Auntie Lynn's suggestion to visit FNAC - be prepared to spend some time and a lot of money. \:D

Also, do make sure to go to La Flûte de Pan at 59 Rue de Rome (near the music school). There are several buildings, each featuring music for different instruments.

It is an excellent music store, seemingly one of the fewer places left on the planet that allows the patrons to browse through the bins.
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#544249 - 12/21/07 01:23 PM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8928
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by whippen boy:
...seemingly one of the fewer places left on the planet that allows the patrons to browse through the bins.
A dying breed alas...

Banks Music in York also have plenty of bins to browse through. Their selection of Anglican service music is unbelievable[/b]. I've never seen anything like it.

Plus -a nice bonus- they have a knowledgeable sales staff who are helpful and fun to chat and camp around with.

Which reminds me: a particularly famous music store in London has the most rotten selection I've ever seen. The bins are crammed with a lot of rubbish. And their sales staff... most of them likely worked at KFC prior.
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Jason

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#544250 - 12/21/07 01:43 PM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
And their sales staff... most of them likely worked at KFC prior.
Finger licking is not a trait I want to associate with sheet music sales staff. \:D
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Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#544251 - 12/22/07 02:03 PM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
Fleeting Visions Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1501
Loc: Champaign, IL
 Quote:
Originally posted by whippen boy:
I second Auntie Lynn's suggestion to visit FNAC - be prepared to spend some time and a lot of money. \:D

Also, do make sure to go to La Flûte de Pan at 59 Rue de Rome (near the music school). There are several buildings, each featuring music for different instruments.

It is an excellent music store, seemingly one of the fewer places left on the planet that allows the patrons to browse through the bins. [/b]
Awesome. I called Durand and they told me to go to the Flute de Pan, and I went there and the service was great. With the decent French my minor earned me, I asked for Debussy preludes, Durand edition, and they confirmed that they were the best.

I am buying Henle scores online because I have a way to get 25% discount, but I think I will get here everything that Henle is not the best for that I want:

Durand- Franck Prelude, Fugue, & Variation (curiously, my favorite of the 3 Franck works)
Durand - Debussy Preludes, both books (~27 Euros)
NLE- Liszt Etudes,Vol. II: Paganini Etudes. 3 caprices poetiques, 2 concert etudes, and ab irato. Henle publishes these separately and the cost goes up quickly. 32 Euros

What do you think?

Daniel

P.S., As far as Henle concerns, I'm getting:

Brahms Variation Sets (40$)
Schubert Impromptus/Moments Musicales (22$)
Schumann Op. 12 (17$)
Chopin Ballades (24$) set.

I'm building a personal library bit by bit. (And my mom is paying for the Henle order, so I'm not as concerned as I could be... although I am paying for the order at la flute de pan)
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Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon

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#544252 - 12/22/07 04:25 PM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
L'echange Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 634
Loc: Romney WV
It is true that durand editions have the tendency to fall apart. The Messiaen regards is one of the most costly scores I own, and is falling apart.

It is unfortunate that Durand has the rights over his work.
_________________________
"Beauty is unbearable, drives us to despair, offering us for a minute the glimpse of an eternity that we should like to stretch out over the whole of time."

-Albert Camus,

Jim

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#544253 - 12/23/07 05:42 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
AZNpiano Online   happy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5559
Loc: Orange County, CA
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Then there's the dodgy situation with Dover editions. They're great for building up an inexpensive library of orchestral scores, but solo piano music?

Just flatten one out on the piano rack and watch it fall apart almost immediately. A particularly offensive example was promptly returned to the retailer. [/b]
Hmm...my Dover books are quite good at staying together. I've been using the Chopin Preludes/Etudes book for over 12 years at it's still together.

My problem with Dover is quality control of the print. Like Durand and Salabert, it's hit-and-miss, depending on where Dover got their copies.
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Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#544254 - 12/23/07 09:41 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
 Quote:
Originally posted by dnephi:
Awesome. I called Durand and they told me to go to the Flute de Pan, and I went there and the service was great.
Wow, that was fast! \:D I'm glad you could take advantage of my recommendation so quickly. I had a feeling you would be pleased. I've always found the service there to be exemplary.

I also note that we have the same taste in music. \:\)

In spite of the fragility of Durand scores, I actually like them. There is something about the paper (high rag content?) and the oversize format that seems rather 'artsy' to me.
_________________________
Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#544255 - 12/23/07 11:38 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
Fleeting Visions Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1501
Loc: Champaign, IL
Well, I'd actually done that before you posted. I was, however, pleased, if terribly intimidated by their French. It was a lot harder than I expected.
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Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon

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#544256 - 12/23/07 12:13 PM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21829
Loc: Oakland
Salabert has some nice collections of piano pieces by some of their most well-known composers at attractive prices. They seem nicely engraved and bound, and I think they have all of the pieces they have the rights to. I have the Mompou album. I would have bought the Poulenc had I not had the music already.
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Semipro Tech

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#544257 - 12/28/07 10:30 AM Re: Sheet Music in Paris- Durand and Salabert Editions
Fleeting Visions Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1501
Loc: Champaign, IL
By way of reporting, visiting La Flute de Pan did not work, because they closed after Christmas until after I leave Paris.

Nearly next door, though, is "Arioso," a house of great bargains.

Transcriptions:

Edizioni Curci: Bach-Busoni Chaconne (12 Euros)
Edition Schott: Stravinsky-Agosti Danse infernale, Berceuse et Finale (L'ouiseu de feu) (16 Euros)

Original Works:

Peters Edition Urtext: Debussy Preludes, Bk 1.
Konemann Music Budapest Urtext: Schubert Klavierstucke, Impromptus, and Moments Musicals (9Euros- a bargain!)
Konemann Music Budapest Urtext: Haydn Sonatas, Vol. II (7.5 Euros- another bargain!)
Konemann Music Budapest Urtext: Brahms Sonatas, opp. 1,2 and 5. Variations, Opp. 9, 21-1,21-2,24,35, and 18: (7.5 Euros: Incredible! )

Cheap Editions:
This Chouden edition had some nice fingerings and looked pretty old.
Edition Choudens: Chopin Sonata in Bb Minor (1.5 Euros)
Edition Choudens: Schumann Kreisleriana (2.5 Euros)
Edition Choudens: Chopin Scherzos and Fantasy in F Minor (5 Euros)
Edition Choudens: Chopin Ballades (3 Euros)

Total Cost: 79 Euros.

My parents paid for this, so I was quite pleased . Still, though, I need to get a Schumann Fantasiestucke set, and there's always more music that you can get, but this is certainly enough music to stop for now.

Merry Christmas,

Daniel
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