Should this piece be approached with no pedal at all or is it ok to use some.
I know that there are no indications to use it and that the piece can be played without it.
But I am always tempted to put some pedal.
What are your thoughts.

Peter

Peter :

Note that in the score the first half note and the dotted eighth tied to the quarter are held notes, and are held for beats one and two, and then for beats three and four; that really should be all the sustain you need in this Prelude without resorting to the pedal.

However, having said that, the use of the pedal adds a totally different character to the piece. The pedal is not needed for the sustain of the RH, in my opinion, but its use does totally change the character of the piece and, I would think, can be justified if that's the effect you want.

Should I use the pedal, then, I would judiciously use it on beats one and three of each bar for the effect of sonority.

I just played it through, twice, once with no pedal and once with pedal as I suggested. It seems to work well either way, but is much more romanatic and "piano"-sounding, of course, with the pedal. One can't argue no pedal for the sake of "authenticity" since Bach didn't write this for piano, anyway.

So, as Sam is going to say in his post ( ), it's okay to use the pedal. I suggest, however, that you use it judiciously; try not to make the broken chords sound like a pure wash of overlapping sounds.

Regards,

It's okay.

i like using pedal with this for each arpeggiated chord of course, which sounds more like singing...

I've been playing this piece for years and never even thought about not using the pedal. It gives it that singing quality and helps with the legato.

However, starting with the 15th measure, it can get to sound muddy. But my piano is old, so maybe that's the problem.

It doesn't really matter what you do with Bach so long as you are consistent. So if you pedal each group of eighth notes, do so throughout the piece.

I think it's worth giving it some thought and giving it a try without pedal. I'm not saying that it has to be without pedal, however. While we can't replicate on a modern piano the sound of the keyboard instrument(s) Bach had in mind when he composed the Well-Tempered Klavier, we should keep in mind that nothing he played on had the equivalent sound of the attack/sustain/decay of the modern piano. There certainly is validity in "cleaning up" the sound by using less - or even very little - pedal.

I'll repeat what I just said, because someone's sure to have misread what I wrote : I'm not saying that I think this Prelude has to be played without pedal, however.[/b]

It also strikes me as somewhat of an anomaly - or at least an inconsistency - if you play the Prelude with a fair amount of pedal and then abandon the pedal for the Fugue so that all the voices will be clear.

Regards,

Do what feels good to you. Here is a rendition I came up with, just to show that it is possible to interpret a musical concept in many different ways. Purists get a little too caught up in the technical aspects of a composition, often at the expense of its true beauty. I have a lot of fun with this piece when I play it. Have a listen:

Bach Prelude in C Major

Nice recording, but your rubato is a little extreme. It almost sounds off tempo in places.

My intent exactly!!!

To me, the rubato is what gives it more soul and character.

More soul and character? Well, I guess that's one way of doing it. Did you do it for argument's sake, or do you really feel that this is a valid manner of playing Baroque music?

Regards,

As I said earlier Bruce, sometimes we just need to be able to break free from our "purism". Of course, the intent of the written page is not represented in my interpretation. I am well capable of "playing it by the book", so to speak. But how many players are willing to expand their horizons past that and experiment a little? The purists will say that I have defiled the composer, and who am I to alter what Bach had intended? To which I reply: If people had said the same to Rachmaninoff, there would never have been a "Variations on a Theme by Paganini", would there? Also, Bach, and most other Baroque composers, never intended for most of their compositions to be played on a piano.....so do you think you are doing his music a disservice by playing it on yours? Of course, I am no Rachmaninoff, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't be able to have a little fun with what they play.

Hey, I like it! Of course it's probably not what Bach intended, but when I listened to the recording I wasn't thinking about my conceptions of the piece as I knew it-- I tried to listen as if hearing it for the first time.

EXACTLY!!!! Thank you Shosti for your open minded approach. Glad you enjoyed it!!

I'll take it the right way, thanks.

That was less of rubato and more of intentionally bad rhythm.

Oh and it sounded like there was some chorus/strings types effects added in. It might have been a digital. That's cheating.

"Intentionally bad rhythm". Interesting. How about you putting up your version........played by you, of course. I'm curious to hear some "Intentionally Good" rhythm.

Ok....All of you get away from the keyboard....and put your hands in the air....

I'm starting to feel some bad vibes on this one lol.

Actually when you start messing too much with Bach your going to get some comments. Although we are all free to interpret and change a piece however we like...which makes us all that much more unique....It still takes a little , not so much respect but a discipline to stick with the score. Obviously if we start refusing interpretation we will never have any new feelings and just same old. Your recording was good, different..and you gave it what you wanted to portray...end of story. I don't think you wanted to play it the way Bach intended anyways.
I sometimes play this one too with the strings to get that feeling and sometimes I don't...depends on the mood. However the day I post it up for comments..it will have only piano and I will be trying to follow the score as best as possible.


Peter

I don't have to.

Anyways, it doesn't take a Richter to spot a stinker.

i would prefer to play this piece in absolute even rhythm (except the last bar) in whatever tempo though, which i feel is more like Bach...

Exactly.

Chopin is Chopin and Bach is Bach.
Mozart is Mozart except when it has a Busoni cadenza.

And a moron is a moron!

Others have politely stated that they prefer the traditional playing of this piece. That is fine. But anyone who would come on this forum to say that someone else's playing "stinks" is a moron.When you have the balls to put your playing up there for all to hear, then let's talk.

Oops easy guys

the harsh words i read in this thread makes me wonder what will happen to me if i wanted to post my recording of bach's p&f no.8 (in the summer :p )

.. bassio bashing threads will be flying all around the forum

Wow CC2 you are not only a pianist but a sound engineer (referring to the background violins)


question" the low note played exactly at 0:56 (in cc2's recording) what is it because i have a question regarding it?

Bassio,
I'll check on the note you are referring to when I get a chance. I agree that Valarking's choice to voice his criticism in such an undiplomatic way could give others who were considering posting their playing here second thoughts about doing so. I would advise you to ignore that kind of criticism and forge ahead. Most of us here are quite open minded and civilized in the way we approach others' playing. I believe everyone has something valuable to offer here, as long as they don't approach their criticism the way Valarking has.

Since no one has yet addressed my earlier points, I will bring them up again as food for thought.

1)None of the Baroque composers wrote their music with the intent that they be played on a modern piano.....no such instrument existed in their time. So, technically, anyone playing their music on a piano today is violating the intent of the composer.

2)Rachmaninoff took Paganini's music, written for a VIOLIN, and applied it to a PIANO. He then changed its tempo, inflection and interpretation, over and over, to create one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written: "Variations on a Theme by Paganini". Certainly, that was never Paganini's intent, but if Rachmaninoff had been as uptight as Valarking, we would have all been deprived of this incredible composition. Once again, I am certainly no Rach....but he didn't seem to see anything wrong with that concept.

I heard Gould's version of this Prelude, and (of course) being the Bach expert that he was, he used no pedal. I'm sorry (Gould or not), it sounded choppy and childish.

I know the Gould fans out there are going to jump all over me and say that he played it the way Bach would have. But if Bach had had the opportunity to play it with a pedal, would he have?

Now there's something to think about?

I think the comparison between your interpretation of the Bach Prelude and Rachmaninoff's theme and variations on Paganini's theme is not valid here.

So many composers have composed themes and variations on works of other composers. Busoni, Stokowski, et al. did transcriptions of the works of Bach. What we were trying to discuss here, however, is how far one can go in interpreting Bach on a modern instrument and still remain somewhat faithful to the original.

It seems to me that once the discussion degrades into name calling there is little point in trying to continue it.

Regards,

He who strikes the first blow admits he's lost the argument. ...A Chinese Proverb.