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#546016 - 06/13/05 01:43 PM Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
Got your attention, didn't I? Thought so.

Many people have complained about how often the Lang debate has gone on, then died, then came back up. I personally don't care, because I relish every opportunity I get to put idiots in their proper place.

Since Lang has emerged, I've formed a rather sweeping opinion of his critics: in general, they are closed-minded, viciously stubborn, vehemently opposed to any form of change of the "music" to which they are accustomed. And these are just the amateur classical music fans. From pianists, both aspiring and professional, I've noticed a particularly disheartening trait: jealousy. They can scream and banter and argue all you want, but their defensiveness only reassures me of my case.

When I witnessed some moron spew some crap about Lang's desecrating Hungarian Rhapsody No.2, I couldn't believe my eyes. What a poor, sad, lost soul. You treat certain pieces and composers as if they were the craftwork of God himself. Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. Putting a concerto or a composer on a pedestal, a concept that has been a foundation for the case against Lang (he ruined X, I'll never forgive him), is dangerous logically. You're painting a metaphorical bullseye on yourself. Not to mention you just look immature and plain stupid. A piece is just a piece--there are reasons why there are numerous different recordings. And if a bad one comes out, life goes on.

When all the miserable ogres hopped on their computers after Lang's Leno show appearance as I knew they would, I just wanted to gather them in a room and give them a collective slap across the face. People complained, naturally[/b], that there was no musicality in his performance...of Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. Gee whiz, guys, I wonder why that could be. He wasn't trying to move a college-age audience to tears.[/b] I think that was evident by his choice of repertoire, don't you? And we all know that when I want to hear emotional music in all its tear-jerking glory[/b], I reach right for Hungarian Rhapsody No.2.[/b] I don't know about you guys, but to me, it's just an improvisational showpiece that was showcased to the public in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" and cartoons. Cartoons.[/b] These half-wits really turned on the television to NBC and expected musicality from a cartoon soundtrack? (Wow, they're even loonier[/b], excuse the pun, than I thought.)

The case against Lang's "musicality" is a logical nightmare for the poor soul who ventures to raise it (again) from its grave. "He's not musical," they say. What a crock. What a stubborn, empty, and deliberately vague cop-out. "Lang Lang go Bang Bang," you say. "Lang Lang uses too many gestures." So what? If you don't like it, don't look at him. I have no problem if you don't prefer his manurisms (but if you whine about Lang Lang whilst professing your undying love for Glenn Gould, despite all of his antics, you'd best keep your situation to yourself). But when you get the audacity to try to convince me I shouldn't like him, then you've crossed the line.[/b] Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong. If you had it your way, we'd live in a wacky, oppressive, and probably very boring world. If I want to like Lang Lang, I will.

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#546017 - 06/13/05 02:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. [/b]
I believe they have.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#546018 - 06/13/05 02:02 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. [/b]
I believe they have. [/b]
Very insightful. Aside from the fact that you took that quote completely out of context, I believe the point I was implicitly trying to make is that people are being unfairly convinced to hate Lang. That is, more people with the gung-ho "Down with Lang" mantra seem to be popping up, and something tells me they're not thinking for themselevs.

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#546019 - 06/13/05 02:04 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Taken out of context? How?
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#546020 - 06/13/05 02:14 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13798
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Everybody has the right to say what they want. But you have the right not to listen to them, and you have the right not to be persecuted for disagreeing with them.

 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong.[/b]
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#546021 - 06/13/05 02:26 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
princessclara2005 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 429
Loc: Dallas, Texas
I do agree people has different taste, and likes, and the argument about LL is really pointless, however, I do also sense some degree of jealousy from some posters.

When you talk about some who doesn't or does play musically, there is no end to it, it is basically no point to proof anything, good or bad because it's totally personal - for performer or listener.

Why people always argue about LL? why not someone else?

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#546022 - 06/13/05 02:29 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 340
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:

I personally don't care, because I relish every opportunity I get to put idiots in their proper place.
[/b]
And your mother should care more about you taking your medication at time.

 Quote:
When all the miserable ogres hopped on their computers after Lang's Leno show appearance as I knew they would, I just wanted to gather them in a room and give them a collective slap across the face.[/b]
I don't think that someone using this kind of language could be a teacher ... as you advertise yourself.

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#546023 - 06/13/05 02:37 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Excellent post steinwaytony
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546024 - 06/13/05 02:39 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
By the way I have two lang lang cd's and I enjoy them. There are far too many bitter and jealous piano players in this forum.

Have a nice day \:\)
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546025 - 06/13/05 02:45 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
mgoblue52 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: Michigan, United States
I do agree that there are some inherent flaws to his music. But let's be honest here; in all areas of the music industry the best musician is not necessarily the most popular. For example, popular singers do not necessarily have the best voice. A superstar's musicality is only one aspect of his or her performance.

I had the opportunity to have a few words with Lang Lang when he visited my hometown last January. In the few minutes that I spoke with him, I realized that outside of piano, he is a human being too; please treat him with respect.

That doesn't mean there should be no constructive criticism, but please don't make this a forum to blast others' playing. We all know how much work it takes to make something performance-ready. I would be hurt if I saw SOLELY negative comments about my performance.

With that being said, I've been taking lessons for nine and a half years and his piano skills make me look like I'm on Bastien Piano Level I or Faber's beginner series. If I could play like he does, I'd be very grateful.

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#546026 - 06/13/05 03:46 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Ipso-Phatso Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Ohio, United States
If he had played the piece how it was written, which was the same as it was in all the various cartoons it's been in, nobody would have had a problem with it. He BUTCHERED it, plain and simple,

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#546027 - 06/13/05 03:53 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
The point is, he is an amazing pianist. Yes, we could all name many pianists who are better, but how many great pianists are there in this world? How many of us in this very forum would consider ourselves good pianists? Now how many of us have as good a technique as, for instance, Lang Lang? (Yes, he missed lots of notes in the Leno performance. But listen to his Carnegie Hall pieces, or his Prokofiev and Tchaikovsky concertos... not as much shmaltz as I might like, but what technique! )

Not everyone will agree with a particular interpretation or feel musically connected to every performance by every good pianist. That does not mean that, if you do not enjoy the performance, the performer is not a good pianist.

How can you guys say honestly that Lang Lang is a bad pianist? I think anybody who can play the pieces that he plays at the velocity he plays them is pretty good. And, in fact, many people are emotionally connected to his music (though I perhaps am not - though I have not really listened to too many of his performances). There are people who are touched by his playing, and you just have to look at him when he plays to realize how much he himself loves and puts emotion into the music.

As I said in another thread, he is young. Sure, there are younger pianists who may be better pianists. Sure, many people have great technique as teenagers. But Lang Lang is only 23 years old, and as far as I'm concerned, that's pretty young. He's got many many years ahead of him (G-d willing), and he will improve greatly with every new experience.
_________________________
Sam

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#546028 - 06/13/05 04:17 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Dave Spelvin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 382
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ipso-Phatso:
If he had played the piece how it was written, which was the same as it was in all the various cartoons it's been in, nobody would have had a problem with it. He BUTCHERED it, plain and simple, [/b]
But he had the stones to play with abandon, for which I thank him. He has shown that he would trade wrong notes for the sense of the music he means to convey, which is what all my favorite pianists do (and did). I thought his playing on Leno was exciting, if not elegant. How did he butcher the piece? By playing it like the show piece it is - trading subtlety for excitement? Sounds like the right trade-off to me, under the circumstances.

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#546029 - 06/13/05 04:41 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ipso-Phatso:
If he had played the piece how it was written, which was the same as it was in all the various cartoons it's been in, nobody would have had a problem with it. He BUTCHERED it, plain and simple, [/b]
Did you not read my post?

It depends on your definition of "butchering." If your idea of "butchering" is playing as little as one note different from Liszt's autograph, then, well, I suppose you could argue that Lang's Leno performance did just that. But by that logic, Horowitz be been another tragic "butcher" of the Rhapsody, with his improvisations and cadenza. And Horowitz being the quasi-deity that he is among moderately educated pianists and classical music fans, I doubt that "Horowitz the butcher" would go over well with most.

Lang's one and only objective in his performance was to wow the crowd. Do you suppose anyone in that studio audience even knew the composer? Most likely not, considering Jay Leno mistakenly introduced the piece as Rachmaninoff. The audience thought simply "wow...fingers...move...fast!" They related to a young, enthusiastic performer who was visibly overflowing with zeal and energy for his passion, and accepted him without question. After all, the average age of an audience member in that studio was probably hovering around his age of 23.

...And even if he did[/b] "butcher" the piece, so what? That's a lousy reason to get cranky a hold a grudge. What if his Hungarian Rhapsody is the worst you've ever heard, but he really shines in something else (for me, it's Beethoven fourth concerto, among other pieces)? You'd never know unless you paid him the respect he deserves by remaining open to him. And that goes for all pianists. And all people.

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#546030 - 06/13/05 04:59 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ipso-Phatso:
If he had played the piece how it was written, which was the same as it was in all the various cartoons it's been in, nobody would have had a problem with it. He BUTCHERED it, plain and simple, [/b]
...And even if he did[/b] "butcher" the piece, so what? That's a lousy reason to get cranky a hold a grudge. [/b]
Ipso-Phatso and all of the others who hold this grudge -

Have you ever "butchered" a piece of music, in practice or performance? Have you ever given a bad performance, in a large concert or simply for a friend or two?

Will you never forgive yourselves?
_________________________
Sam

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#546031 - 06/13/05 05:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Ipso-Phatso Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Ohio, United States
Actually, if you look in all of the threads regarding Lang Lang's performance on Leno, I said he was an amazing pianist, and had incredible skills, he kicks my ***.

That being said, I did not care for his BUTCHERED version. I am sorry, but to say that there was just "one wrong note" is insane. He absolutely destroyed the HR#2. Even the most popular part, the "Tempo Giusto-vivace" he managed to butcher; and that's probably one of the easiest parts of the Friska...

I'd KILL to have his fingers. I'd kill to have his skill. I just wish he'd use it better. Rather than taking what Liszt wrote, and just keeping little bits and pieces of it, he should have just played it how it was written.

I really like the HR#2, it's my favorite HR. I feel his performance on Leno, while very technically wowing with his fast fingers, destroyed the piece.

It's just an opinion buddy. Nowhere have I ever said that I am better than Lang Lang. Far from it.

If his mistakes were made due to pressure/stage fright, then I'd "forgive" it. Everyone makes mistakes. I am not blaming him for mistakes. What he played on Leno, is HOW he plays it. He played it on PBS that way. He plays it at his shows that way. It's his crazy seizure-like movements that probably hinder his playing of the piece.

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#546032 - 06/13/05 06:05 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Hepcat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 254
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Got your attention, didn't I? Thought so.

Many people have complained about how often the Lang debate has gone on, then died, then came back up. I personally don't care, because I relish every opportunity I get to put idiots in their proper place.

Since Lang has emerged, I've formed a rather sweeping opinion of his critics: in general, they are closed-minded, viciously stubborn, vehemently opposed to any form of change of the "music" to which they are accustomed. And these are just the amateur classical music fans. From pianists, both aspiring and professional, I've noticed a particularly disheartening trait: jealousy. They can scream and banter and argue all you want, but their defensiveness only reassures me of my case.

When I witnessed some moron spew some crap about Lang's desecrating Hungarian Rhapsody No.2, I couldn't believe my eyes. What a poor, sad, lost soul. You treat certain pieces and composers as if they were the craftwork of God himself. Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. Putting a concerto or a composer on a pedestal, a concept that has been a foundation for the case against Lang (he ruined X, I'll never forgive him), is dangerous logically. You're painting a metaphorical bullseye on yourself. Not to mention you just look immature and plain stupid. A piece is just a piece--there are reasons why there are numerous different recordings. And if a bad one comes out, life goes on.

When all the miserable ogres hopped on their computers after Lang's Leno show appearance as I knew they would, I just wanted to gather them in a room and give them a collective slap across the face. People complained, naturally[/b], that there was no musicality in his performance...of Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. Gee whiz, guys, I wonder why that could be. He wasn't trying to move a college-age audience to tears.[/b] I think that was evident by his choice of repertoire, don't you? And we all know that when I want to hear emotional music in all its tear-jerking glory[/b], I reach right for Hungarian Rhapsody No.2.[/b] I don't know about you guys, but to me, it's just an improvisational showpiece that was showcased to the public in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" and cartoons. Cartoons.[/b] These half-wits really turned on the television to NBC and expected musicality from a cartoon soundtrack? (Wow, they're even loonier[/b], excuse the pun, than I thought.)

The case against Lang's "musicality" is a logical nightmare for the poor soul who ventures to raise it (again) from its grave. "He's not musical," they say. What a crock. What a stubborn, empty, and deliberately vague cop-out. "Lang Lang go Bang Bang," you say. "Lang Lang uses too many gestures." So what? If you don't like it, don't look at him. I have no problem if you don't prefer his manurisms (but if you whine about Lang Lang whilst professing your undying love for Glenn Gould, despite all of his antics, you'd best keep your situation to yourself). But when you get the audacity to try to convince me I shouldn't like him, then you've crossed the line.[/b] Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong. If you had it your way, we'd live in a wacky, oppressive, and probably very boring world. If I want to like Lang Lang, I will. [/b]
Ok. Now tell us how you really feel ;\)

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#546033 - 06/13/05 06:15 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
While I agree with some of SteinwayTony's post, SteinwayTony, you make the mistake of the critic of the critic. NO, you do NOT have to know how to act to judge bad acting, you do NOT have to know how to paint to judge a painting, and you do NOT have to be a pianist, much less a BETTER pianist, to judge another pianist.

Critics are what they are: critics. If all critics were able to do what they critiqued, I guarantee you we'd have much fewer critics out there.

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#546034 - 06/13/05 06:35 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by aznxk3vi17:
[QB] NO, you do NOT have to know how to act to judge bad acting, you do NOT have to know how to paint to judge a painting, and you do NOT have to be a pianist, much less a BETTER pianist, to judge another pianist.
Huh? :rolleyes:

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#546035 - 06/13/05 06:41 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1759
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
"Lang Lang is better than you."

So?

A lot of people play better than me, doesn't mean he deserves the celebrity IMHO.
_________________________
David Burton's Blog
http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

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#546036 - 06/13/05 07:04 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
FYI: The title is meaningless other than to capture your attention and bring you into the thread.

Which it did.

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#546037 - 06/13/05 07:15 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Oh, we forum junkies will click on pretty much anything. No need for bait.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#546038 - 06/13/05 07:18 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5318
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by David Burton:
"Lang Lang is better than you."

So?

A lot of people play better than me, doesn't mean he deserves the celebrity IMHO. [/b]
Best post yet.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#546039 - 06/13/05 08:51 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I think this post is so much about anyone deserving celebrity stature as it is about people trying to brainwash and force others to adopt their views.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546040 - 06/13/05 09:11 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
I humbly request the moderators to close such topics from now on... either make a Lang Lang sticky, or make another forum...

The Lang Lang Café, anybody? :rolleyes:

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#546041 - 06/13/05 09:14 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
This ****'s been said over and over and over and over and over again, Steinway. Don't start fights. Accept that you like Lang Lang and I don't. Opinions are what makes an individual.

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#546042 - 06/13/05 09:35 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Đanor Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1232
Loc: Santiago, Chile
Ok Brendan, thread closed?
_________________________
ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss

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#546043 - 06/13/05 09:39 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Mr. E Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 426
Jealousy?!?!? Ha, if I'm going to be jealous, I'll find someone better than Lang Lang to be jealous of. Give the attention and hype to someone who deserves it, and believe me, there are tons of more worthy candidates.

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#546044 - 06/13/05 09:42 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
xyz2004slc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 353
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
It depends on your definition of "butchering." If your idea of "butchering" is playing as little as one note different from Liszt's autograph, then, well, I suppose you could argue that Lang's Leno performance did just that. But by that logic, Horowitz be been another tragic "butcher" of the Rhapsody, with his improvisations and cadenza. And Horowitz being the quasi-deity that he is among moderately educated pianists and classical music fans, I doubt that "Horowitz the butcher" would go over well with most. [/b]
Amen. Lang Lang played it as how he believed it should sound IN ORDER TO PLEASE THE CROWD. Those people were not pianists like you or I. They were Leno fans awaiting yet another amazing show, which they got.

Even if you don't agree with my above stated opinion, please stop with the direct, personal insults at Lang Lang and at people who do not share your opinion. He can do whatever hand gestures he wants. We are all musicians. Beethoven once said that musicians were superior to others. Do personal insults demonstrate our civility, not to mention superiority? I agree that we should continue to critique our fellow artists, however we should do it constructively. "Horrible" and "butchering" are not words that I call constructive (tell me if I am off base here). What do you think he did wrong specifically? The answers to that question will help us better our own playing ability. Causing an altercation on PW is beneficial to noone. PLEASE stop with the personal insults. He is human and he is only 23, and if I were him, I would be extremely hurt given the responses of some posters here. We all develop in different ways. Let me say this again, WHY DO YOU CARE THAT HE DOES HAND GESTURES. Do you remember the days of running across the house naked crying "mommy"? Should we persecute you for that?
I believe that given the fact that Lang Lang is a world-renowned pianist (can I use this title without fear of persecution?) at age 23, he has the potential to become one of the best in history if he keeps up. In my opinion, some of you direct your anger at Lang Lang because of his age. If so, it saddens me since I am only 13. You can be constructive, but you cannot be insulting.

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#546045 - 06/13/05 10:12 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1476
Loc: Encino, California
Oh dear! How long will it be before I get go see Lang Lang in action so I too can chime in on this chorus.
Meanwhile, back at my Estonia.............
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

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Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
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