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#546016 - 06/13/05 01:43 PM Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
Got your attention, didn't I? Thought so.

Many people have complained about how often the Lang debate has gone on, then died, then came back up. I personally don't care, because I relish every opportunity I get to put idiots in their proper place.

Since Lang has emerged, I've formed a rather sweeping opinion of his critics: in general, they are closed-minded, viciously stubborn, vehemently opposed to any form of change of the "music" to which they are accustomed. And these are just the amateur classical music fans. From pianists, both aspiring and professional, I've noticed a particularly disheartening trait: jealousy. They can scream and banter and argue all you want, but their defensiveness only reassures me of my case.

When I witnessed some moron spew some crap about Lang's desecrating Hungarian Rhapsody No.2, I couldn't believe my eyes. What a poor, sad, lost soul. You treat certain pieces and composers as if they were the craftwork of God himself. Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. Putting a concerto or a composer on a pedestal, a concept that has been a foundation for the case against Lang (he ruined X, I'll never forgive him), is dangerous logically. You're painting a metaphorical bullseye on yourself. Not to mention you just look immature and plain stupid. A piece is just a piece--there are reasons why there are numerous different recordings. And if a bad one comes out, life goes on.

When all the miserable ogres hopped on their computers after Lang's Leno show appearance as I knew they would, I just wanted to gather them in a room and give them a collective slap across the face. People complained, naturally[/b], that there was no musicality in his performance...of Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. Gee whiz, guys, I wonder why that could be. He wasn't trying to move a college-age audience to tears.[/b] I think that was evident by his choice of repertoire, don't you? And we all know that when I want to hear emotional music in all its tear-jerking glory[/b], I reach right for Hungarian Rhapsody No.2.[/b] I don't know about you guys, but to me, it's just an improvisational showpiece that was showcased to the public in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" and cartoons. Cartoons.[/b] These half-wits really turned on the television to NBC and expected musicality from a cartoon soundtrack? (Wow, they're even loonier[/b], excuse the pun, than I thought.)

The case against Lang's "musicality" is a logical nightmare for the poor soul who ventures to raise it (again) from its grave. "He's not musical," they say. What a crock. What a stubborn, empty, and deliberately vague cop-out. "Lang Lang go Bang Bang," you say. "Lang Lang uses too many gestures." So what? If you don't like it, don't look at him. I have no problem if you don't prefer his manurisms (but if you whine about Lang Lang whilst professing your undying love for Glenn Gould, despite all of his antics, you'd best keep your situation to yourself). But when you get the audacity to try to convince me I shouldn't like him, then you've crossed the line.[/b] Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong. If you had it your way, we'd live in a wacky, oppressive, and probably very boring world. If I want to like Lang Lang, I will.

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#546017 - 06/13/05 02:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. [/b]
I believe they have.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#546018 - 06/13/05 02:02 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. [/b]
I believe they have. [/b]
Very insightful. Aside from the fact that you took that quote completely out of context, I believe the point I was implicitly trying to make is that people are being unfairly convinced to hate Lang. That is, more people with the gung-ho "Down with Lang" mantra seem to be popping up, and something tells me they're not thinking for themselevs.

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#546019 - 06/13/05 02:04 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Taken out of context? How?
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#546020 - 06/13/05 02:14 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13759
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Everybody has the right to say what they want. But you have the right not to listen to them, and you have the right not to be persecuted for disagreeing with them.

 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong.[/b]
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#546021 - 06/13/05 02:26 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
princessclara2005 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 429
Loc: Dallas, Texas
I do agree people has different taste, and likes, and the argument about LL is really pointless, however, I do also sense some degree of jealousy from some posters.

When you talk about some who doesn't or does play musically, there is no end to it, it is basically no point to proof anything, good or bad because it's totally personal - for performer or listener.

Why people always argue about LL? why not someone else?

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#546022 - 06/13/05 02:29 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 340
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:

I personally don't care, because I relish every opportunity I get to put idiots in their proper place.
[/b]
And your mother should care more about you taking your medication at time.

 Quote:
When all the miserable ogres hopped on their computers after Lang's Leno show appearance as I knew they would, I just wanted to gather them in a room and give them a collective slap across the face.[/b]
I don't think that someone using this kind of language could be a teacher ... as you advertise yourself.

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#546023 - 06/13/05 02:37 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Excellent post steinwaytony
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546024 - 06/13/05 02:39 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
By the way I have two lang lang cd's and I enjoy them. There are far too many bitter and jealous piano players in this forum.

Have a nice day \:\)
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546025 - 06/13/05 02:45 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
mgoblue52 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: Michigan, United States
I do agree that there are some inherent flaws to his music. But let's be honest here; in all areas of the music industry the best musician is not necessarily the most popular. For example, popular singers do not necessarily have the best voice. A superstar's musicality is only one aspect of his or her performance.

I had the opportunity to have a few words with Lang Lang when he visited my hometown last January. In the few minutes that I spoke with him, I realized that outside of piano, he is a human being too; please treat him with respect.

That doesn't mean there should be no constructive criticism, but please don't make this a forum to blast others' playing. We all know how much work it takes to make something performance-ready. I would be hurt if I saw SOLELY negative comments about my performance.

With that being said, I've been taking lessons for nine and a half years and his piano skills make me look like I'm on Bastien Piano Level I or Faber's beginner series. If I could play like he does, I'd be very grateful.

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#546026 - 06/13/05 03:46 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Ipso-Phatso Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Ohio, United States
If he had played the piece how it was written, which was the same as it was in all the various cartoons it's been in, nobody would have had a problem with it. He BUTCHERED it, plain and simple,

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#546027 - 06/13/05 03:53 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
The point is, he is an amazing pianist. Yes, we could all name many pianists who are better, but how many great pianists are there in this world? How many of us in this very forum would consider ourselves good pianists? Now how many of us have as good a technique as, for instance, Lang Lang? (Yes, he missed lots of notes in the Leno performance. But listen to his Carnegie Hall pieces, or his Prokofiev and Tchaikovsky concertos... not as much shmaltz as I might like, but what technique! )

Not everyone will agree with a particular interpretation or feel musically connected to every performance by every good pianist. That does not mean that, if you do not enjoy the performance, the performer is not a good pianist.

How can you guys say honestly that Lang Lang is a bad pianist? I think anybody who can play the pieces that he plays at the velocity he plays them is pretty good. And, in fact, many people are emotionally connected to his music (though I perhaps am not - though I have not really listened to too many of his performances). There are people who are touched by his playing, and you just have to look at him when he plays to realize how much he himself loves and puts emotion into the music.

As I said in another thread, he is young. Sure, there are younger pianists who may be better pianists. Sure, many people have great technique as teenagers. But Lang Lang is only 23 years old, and as far as I'm concerned, that's pretty young. He's got many many years ahead of him (G-d willing), and he will improve greatly with every new experience.
_________________________
Sam

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#546028 - 06/13/05 04:17 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Dave Spelvin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 382
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ipso-Phatso:
If he had played the piece how it was written, which was the same as it was in all the various cartoons it's been in, nobody would have had a problem with it. He BUTCHERED it, plain and simple, [/b]
But he had the stones to play with abandon, for which I thank him. He has shown that he would trade wrong notes for the sense of the music he means to convey, which is what all my favorite pianists do (and did). I thought his playing on Leno was exciting, if not elegant. How did he butcher the piece? By playing it like the show piece it is - trading subtlety for excitement? Sounds like the right trade-off to me, under the circumstances.

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#546029 - 06/13/05 04:41 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ipso-Phatso:
If he had played the piece how it was written, which was the same as it was in all the various cartoons it's been in, nobody would have had a problem with it. He BUTCHERED it, plain and simple, [/b]
Did you not read my post?

It depends on your definition of "butchering." If your idea of "butchering" is playing as little as one note different from Liszt's autograph, then, well, I suppose you could argue that Lang's Leno performance did just that. But by that logic, Horowitz be been another tragic "butcher" of the Rhapsody, with his improvisations and cadenza. And Horowitz being the quasi-deity that he is among moderately educated pianists and classical music fans, I doubt that "Horowitz the butcher" would go over well with most.

Lang's one and only objective in his performance was to wow the crowd. Do you suppose anyone in that studio audience even knew the composer? Most likely not, considering Jay Leno mistakenly introduced the piece as Rachmaninoff. The audience thought simply "wow...fingers...move...fast!" They related to a young, enthusiastic performer who was visibly overflowing with zeal and energy for his passion, and accepted him without question. After all, the average age of an audience member in that studio was probably hovering around his age of 23.

...And even if he did[/b] "butcher" the piece, so what? That's a lousy reason to get cranky a hold a grudge. What if his Hungarian Rhapsody is the worst you've ever heard, but he really shines in something else (for me, it's Beethoven fourth concerto, among other pieces)? You'd never know unless you paid him the respect he deserves by remaining open to him. And that goes for all pianists. And all people.

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#546030 - 06/13/05 04:59 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ipso-Phatso:
If he had played the piece how it was written, which was the same as it was in all the various cartoons it's been in, nobody would have had a problem with it. He BUTCHERED it, plain and simple, [/b]
...And even if he did[/b] "butcher" the piece, so what? That's a lousy reason to get cranky a hold a grudge. [/b]
Ipso-Phatso and all of the others who hold this grudge -

Have you ever "butchered" a piece of music, in practice or performance? Have you ever given a bad performance, in a large concert or simply for a friend or two?

Will you never forgive yourselves?
_________________________
Sam

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#546031 - 06/13/05 05:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Ipso-Phatso Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Ohio, United States
Actually, if you look in all of the threads regarding Lang Lang's performance on Leno, I said he was an amazing pianist, and had incredible skills, he kicks my ***.

That being said, I did not care for his BUTCHERED version. I am sorry, but to say that there was just "one wrong note" is insane. He absolutely destroyed the HR#2. Even the most popular part, the "Tempo Giusto-vivace" he managed to butcher; and that's probably one of the easiest parts of the Friska...

I'd KILL to have his fingers. I'd kill to have his skill. I just wish he'd use it better. Rather than taking what Liszt wrote, and just keeping little bits and pieces of it, he should have just played it how it was written.

I really like the HR#2, it's my favorite HR. I feel his performance on Leno, while very technically wowing with his fast fingers, destroyed the piece.

It's just an opinion buddy. Nowhere have I ever said that I am better than Lang Lang. Far from it.

If his mistakes were made due to pressure/stage fright, then I'd "forgive" it. Everyone makes mistakes. I am not blaming him for mistakes. What he played on Leno, is HOW he plays it. He played it on PBS that way. He plays it at his shows that way. It's his crazy seizure-like movements that probably hinder his playing of the piece.

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#546032 - 06/13/05 06:05 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Hepcat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 254
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Got your attention, didn't I? Thought so.

Many people have complained about how often the Lang debate has gone on, then died, then came back up. I personally don't care, because I relish every opportunity I get to put idiots in their proper place.

Since Lang has emerged, I've formed a rather sweeping opinion of his critics: in general, they are closed-minded, viciously stubborn, vehemently opposed to any form of change of the "music" to which they are accustomed. And these are just the amateur classical music fans. From pianists, both aspiring and professional, I've noticed a particularly disheartening trait: jealousy. They can scream and banter and argue all you want, but their defensiveness only reassures me of my case.

When I witnessed some moron spew some crap about Lang's desecrating Hungarian Rhapsody No.2, I couldn't believe my eyes. What a poor, sad, lost soul. You treat certain pieces and composers as if they were the craftwork of God himself. Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. Putting a concerto or a composer on a pedestal, a concept that has been a foundation for the case against Lang (he ruined X, I'll never forgive him), is dangerous logically. You're painting a metaphorical bullseye on yourself. Not to mention you just look immature and plain stupid. A piece is just a piece--there are reasons why there are numerous different recordings. And if a bad one comes out, life goes on.

When all the miserable ogres hopped on their computers after Lang's Leno show appearance as I knew they would, I just wanted to gather them in a room and give them a collective slap across the face. People complained, naturally[/b], that there was no musicality in his performance...of Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. Gee whiz, guys, I wonder why that could be. He wasn't trying to move a college-age audience to tears.[/b] I think that was evident by his choice of repertoire, don't you? And we all know that when I want to hear emotional music in all its tear-jerking glory[/b], I reach right for Hungarian Rhapsody No.2.[/b] I don't know about you guys, but to me, it's just an improvisational showpiece that was showcased to the public in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" and cartoons. Cartoons.[/b] These half-wits really turned on the television to NBC and expected musicality from a cartoon soundtrack? (Wow, they're even loonier[/b], excuse the pun, than I thought.)

The case against Lang's "musicality" is a logical nightmare for the poor soul who ventures to raise it (again) from its grave. "He's not musical," they say. What a crock. What a stubborn, empty, and deliberately vague cop-out. "Lang Lang go Bang Bang," you say. "Lang Lang uses too many gestures." So what? If you don't like it, don't look at him. I have no problem if you don't prefer his manurisms (but if you whine about Lang Lang whilst professing your undying love for Glenn Gould, despite all of his antics, you'd best keep your situation to yourself). But when you get the audacity to try to convince me I shouldn't like him, then you've crossed the line.[/b] Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong. If you had it your way, we'd live in a wacky, oppressive, and probably very boring world. If I want to like Lang Lang, I will. [/b]
Ok. Now tell us how you really feel ;\)

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#546033 - 06/13/05 06:15 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
While I agree with some of SteinwayTony's post, SteinwayTony, you make the mistake of the critic of the critic. NO, you do NOT have to know how to act to judge bad acting, you do NOT have to know how to paint to judge a painting, and you do NOT have to be a pianist, much less a BETTER pianist, to judge another pianist.

Critics are what they are: critics. If all critics were able to do what they critiqued, I guarantee you we'd have much fewer critics out there.

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#546034 - 06/13/05 06:35 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by aznxk3vi17:
[QB] NO, you do NOT have to know how to act to judge bad acting, you do NOT have to know how to paint to judge a painting, and you do NOT have to be a pianist, much less a BETTER pianist, to judge another pianist.
Huh? :rolleyes:

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#546035 - 06/13/05 06:41 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
David Burton Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 1757
Loc: Coxsackie, New York
"Lang Lang is better than you."

So?

A lot of people play better than me, doesn't mean he deserves the celebrity IMHO.
_________________________
David Burton's Blog
http://dpbmss041010.blogspot.com/

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#546036 - 06/13/05 07:04 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
FYI: The title is meaningless other than to capture your attention and bring you into the thread.

Which it did.

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#546037 - 06/13/05 07:15 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Oh, we forum junkies will click on pretty much anything. No need for bait.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#546038 - 06/13/05 07:18 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5283
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by David Burton:
"Lang Lang is better than you."

So?

A lot of people play better than me, doesn't mean he deserves the celebrity IMHO. [/b]
Best post yet.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#546039 - 06/13/05 08:51 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I think this post is so much about anyone deserving celebrity stature as it is about people trying to brainwash and force others to adopt their views.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546040 - 06/13/05 09:11 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
aznxk3vi17 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/02
Posts: 701
Loc: Johns Hopkins University
I humbly request the moderators to close such topics from now on... either make a Lang Lang sticky, or make another forum...

The Lang Lang Caf, anybody? :rolleyes:

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#546041 - 06/13/05 09:14 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Deus ex Pianoforte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 346
Loc: California
This ****'s been said over and over and over and over and over again, Steinway. Don't start fights. Accept that you like Lang Lang and I don't. Opinions are what makes an individual.

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#546042 - 06/13/05 09:35 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
anor Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1232
Loc: Santiago, Chile
Ok Brendan, thread closed?
_________________________
ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss

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#546043 - 06/13/05 09:39 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Mr. E Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 426
Jealousy?!?!? Ha, if I'm going to be jealous, I'll find someone better than Lang Lang to be jealous of. Give the attention and hype to someone who deserves it, and believe me, there are tons of more worthy candidates.

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#546044 - 06/13/05 09:42 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
xyz2004slc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 353
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
It depends on your definition of "butchering." If your idea of "butchering" is playing as little as one note different from Liszt's autograph, then, well, I suppose you could argue that Lang's Leno performance did just that. But by that logic, Horowitz be been another tragic "butcher" of the Rhapsody, with his improvisations and cadenza. And Horowitz being the quasi-deity that he is among moderately educated pianists and classical music fans, I doubt that "Horowitz the butcher" would go over well with most. [/b]
Amen. Lang Lang played it as how he believed it should sound IN ORDER TO PLEASE THE CROWD. Those people were not pianists like you or I. They were Leno fans awaiting yet another amazing show, which they got.

Even if you don't agree with my above stated opinion, please stop with the direct, personal insults at Lang Lang and at people who do not share your opinion. He can do whatever hand gestures he wants. We are all musicians. Beethoven once said that musicians were superior to others. Do personal insults demonstrate our civility, not to mention superiority? I agree that we should continue to critique our fellow artists, however we should do it constructively. "Horrible" and "butchering" are not words that I call constructive (tell me if I am off base here). What do you think he did wrong specifically? The answers to that question will help us better our own playing ability. Causing an altercation on PW is beneficial to noone. PLEASE stop with the personal insults. He is human and he is only 23, and if I were him, I would be extremely hurt given the responses of some posters here. We all develop in different ways. Let me say this again, WHY DO YOU CARE THAT HE DOES HAND GESTURES. Do you remember the days of running across the house naked crying "mommy"? Should we persecute you for that?
I believe that given the fact that Lang Lang is a world-renowned pianist (can I use this title without fear of persecution?) at age 23, he has the potential to become one of the best in history if he keeps up. In my opinion, some of you direct your anger at Lang Lang because of his age. If so, it saddens me since I am only 13. You can be constructive, but you cannot be insulting.

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#546045 - 06/13/05 10:12 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
ChatNoir Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 1471
Loc: Encino, California
Oh dear! How long will it be before I get go see Lang Lang in action so I too can chime in on this chorus.
Meanwhile, back at my Estonia.............
_________________________
Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.

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#546046 - 06/14/05 06:21 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by xyz2004slc:
Even if you don't agree with my above stated opinion, please stop with the direct, personal insults at Lang Lang and at people who do not share your opinion. He can do whatever hand gestures he wants. We are all musicians. Beethoven once said that musicians were superior to others. Do personal insults demonstrate our civility, not to mention superiority? I agree that we should continue to critique our fellow artists, however we should do it constructively. "Horrible" and "butchering" are not words that I call constructive (tell me if I am off base here). What do you think he did wrong specifically? The answers to that question will help us better our own playing ability. Causing an altercation on PW is beneficial to noone. PLEASE stop with the personal insults. He is human and he is only 23, and if I were him, I would be extremely hurt given the responses of some posters here. We all develop in different ways.

...

You can be constructive, but you cannot be insulting. [/b]
Thank you.

I got some pretty nasty comments on my thread when I posted my own recordings. "Hilariously bad." "Helfgott at Cziffra speed." ... What point do they serve?

I also got some very, very good comments. I'm not referring to the people who thought my recordings were amazing (though I like those!), but I'm referring to the ones that gave me advice. That told me specifically some ideas that I might work on, what my strengths and weaknesses appear to be, and how I might program recitals a little differently in the future. These are the comments that are really appreciated and beneficial - not the pointless insults.
_________________________
Sam

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#546047 - 06/14/05 08:38 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Reaper Man Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 273
 Quote:
Originally posted by God knows who - I seemed to have deleted his name

Very insightful. Aside from the fact that you took that quote completely out of context, I believe the point I was implicitly trying to make is that people are being unfairly convinced to hate Lang. That is, more people with the gung-ho "Down with Lang" mantra seem to be popping up, and something tells me they're not thinking for themselevs. [/QB]
DID IT EVER occur to you that quite possibly that people are thinking for themselves, I mean I know I am, and maybe have you considered the possibility that Lang Lang SUCKS SO MUCH????

Don't lecture us on how we seem to be monotonous, morons who can't seem to form our own opinions. You may like him and good for you, but don't bash anyone for their opinion, and certainly do NOT tell us we're wrong if most of the majority agrees with our opinion.

Please don't give us this Context crap again.

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#546048 - 06/14/05 08:59 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
virtuoso418 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 645
Im going to echo xyz and jerome's post about constructive criticism. No name calling is neccessary and the name calling goes nowhere. The extremity of "butchering" sounds like its coming from a reowned piano critic as if you've written the piece yourself, but you didnt. Worse of all, the worse criticism is from that HR performance on a jay leno show... I fail to understand why you would criticize on that account. If he was playing the very same piece in a concert setting, then i would understand a fair amount of criticism. But on a TV show and judge it with name-calling, proclaming it's unforgivable just makes you look immature.

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#546049 - 06/14/05 09:01 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
virtuoso418 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 645
 Quote:
SUCKS SO MUCH????
Thanks for proving my point.

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#546050 - 06/14/05 09:23 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Dave Spelvin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 382
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
I'll admit to being somewhat baffled by the whole LL controversy. I love piano as much as anyone here, and have listened to as much piano music as anyone else, but I fail to see why LL is the cause of so much passion. Are pianists fearful that he has taken one of the few concert pianist slots, the one that was reserved for them? If you think that's the case, the business doesn't work that way. If you're good enough and persistent enough and lucky enough and well-connected enough, you'll get a shot at a career. Stop worrying about what LL does or doesn't do. I know you didn't vote for him, and you can't impeach him - at least I don't think you can. Enjoy his playing or don't, keep up with his career or don't, tell all your friends to love him or hate him or don't.

But why would you raise your blood pressure over this?

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#546051 - 06/14/05 10:13 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Deus ex Pianoforte:
This ****'s been said over and over and over and over and over again, Steinway. Don't start fights. Accept that you like Lang Lang and I don't. Opinions are what makes an individual. [/b]
Don't point at me. If people are too immature to handle a topic without screaming and yelling and cursing, that's not my fault.

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#546052 - 06/14/05 10:56 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 340
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Don't point at me. If people are too immature to handle a topic without screaming and yelling and cursing, that's not my fault. [/b]
You are "too immature", Anthony ! You started the cursing :"idiots, morons, miserable ogres". Apparently you have a very short memory.

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#546053 - 06/14/05 12:10 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
pianistcomposer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 312
Loc: Baltimore, MD, USA
"Worse of all, the worse criticism is from that HR performance on a jay leno show... I fail to understand why you would criticize on that account. If he was playing the very same piece in a concert setting, then i would understand a fair amount of criticism. But on a TV show and judge it with name-calling, proclaming it's unforgivable just makes you look immature."

I don't get it; why should a performance be judged differently based on its location? The music doesn't change from one place to another, except insofar as acoustical considerations must be taken into account (as regards tempo, pedaling, etc.). A performance is a performance, and I think that one should always be striving to put his best foot forward, whether it's at Carnegie Hall or in a retirement community in rural Nebraska. Gosh, I really wish I'd heard this Leno performance so I could know what all the hoo-hah is about...Maybe it'll be re-aired some time.
_________________________
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#546054 - 06/14/05 12:52 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Reaper Man:
 Quote:
Originally posted by God knows who - I seemed to have deleted his name

Very insightful. Aside from the fact that you took that quote completely out of context, I believe the point I was implicitly trying to make is that people are being unfairly convinced to hate Lang. That is, more people with the gung-ho "Down with Lang" mantra seem to be popping up, and something tells me they're not thinking for themselevs. [/b]
DID IT EVER occur to you that quite possibly that people are thinking for themselves, I mean I know I am, and maybe have you considered the possibility that Lang Lang SUCKS SO MUCH????

Don't lecture us on how we seem to be monotonous, morons who can't seem to form our own opinions. You may like him and good for you, but don't bash anyone for their opinion, and certainly do NOT tell us we're wrong if most of the majority agrees with our opinion.

Please don't give us this Context crap again. [/QB]
Actually you're dead wrong, seeing as how the majority DISAGREES with you due to the fact that Lang Lang is highly successful, wealthy, boundlessly praised, and is received in a charior everywhere he goes.

So my friend it seems you are actually in the minority.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546055 - 06/14/05 12:57 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil:
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Don't point at me. If people are too immature to handle a topic without screaming and yelling and cursing, that's not my fault. [/b]
You are "too immature", Anthony ! You started the cursing :"idiots, morons, miserable ogres". Apparently you have a very short memory. [/b]
Oh, please. I'm free to choose the language I use to word my argument. The difference between myself and others is that I don't make personal attacks.

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#546056 - 06/14/05 01:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianistcomposer:
"Worse of all, the worse criticism is from that HR performance on a jay leno show... I fail to understand why you would criticize on that account. If he was playing the very same piece in a concert setting, then i would understand a fair amount of criticism. But on a TV show and judge it with name-calling, proclaming it's unforgivable just makes you look immature."

I don't get it; why should a performance be judged differently based on its location? The music doesn't change from one place to another, except insofar as acoustical considerations must be taken into account (as regards tempo, pedaling, etc.). A performance is a performance, and I think that one should always be striving to put his best foot forward, whether it's at Carnegie Hall or in a retirement community in rural Nebraska. Gosh, I really wish I'd heard this Leno performance so I could know what all the hoo-hah is about...Maybe it'll be re-aired some time. [/b]
I think the venue has a lot to do with the performance, or the way an artist views a performance. More important is the stigma of the typical audience members of the venues. On an amateur level, there's a difference between performing for your mother's dinner party. On a professional level, there's a difference between performing in South Dakota and Carnegie Hall.

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#546057 - 06/14/05 01:06 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 340
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
[Oh, please. I'm free to choose the language I use to word my argument. The difference between myself and others is that I don't make personal attacks.
"Free" to choose the language ? I doubt it. Most of the forums have filters.

You believe that language does not matter as long as you don't make personal attacks... So what about this : "American citizens are dumb, uneducated and overweight beer drinkers !" - You see... no personal attack ! How do you feel about it ?

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#546058 - 06/14/05 01:12 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil:
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
[Oh, please. I'm free to choose the language I use to word my argument. The difference between myself and others is that I don't make personal attacks.
"Free" to choose the language ? I doubt it. Most of the forums have filters.

You believe that language does not matter as long as you don't make personal attacks... So what about this : "American citizens are dumb, uneducated and overweight beer drinkers !" - You see... no personal attack ! How do you feel about it ? [/b]
Ah it's ok friend, I enjoy drinking beer and fine wines all day, living in the lap of luxury in the greatest country on Earth, every convenience at the command of my every whim while you dredge in the muck for every last rupee, sheckle, or peso you can find to finance hay for your horse and buggy while I drive around Manhattan in my Lexus.

;\)
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546059 - 06/14/05 01:13 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil:
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
[Oh, please. I'm free to choose the language I use to word my argument. The difference between myself and others is that I don't make personal attacks.
"Free" to choose the language ? I doubt it. Most of the forums have filters.

You believe that language does not matter as long as you don't make personal attacks... So what about this : "American citizens are dumb, uneducated and overweight beer drinkers !" - You see... no personal attack ! How do you feel about it ? [/b]
Here's how I feel:

I feel that your mediocre command of the English language is inhibiting your ability to full comprehend what I'm trying to say. That became evident when I said I was "free" to use whatever language I wanted, and you superficially interpreted that as my saying that I can use curse words in the forum. Maybe there are some manurisms that don't exactly translate. No matter, that's irrelevant, but I don't understand why you are aggressively picking apart every single aspect of my sentences; since they have nothing to do with the topic I can only assume that's either (a) a personal problem you have with me, or (b) you exploiting the internet to get your suppressed rage out. Either way, I did nothing to deserve it.

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#546060 - 06/14/05 01:17 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
LMAO that's hilarious.

Ok, well now I think the anti "LL Detractors" people have had their say and I feel better already, so with that in mind


*rings a bell* Waiter can I get a thread close on table 6 please?

;\)
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546061 - 06/14/05 01:47 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
There have been good arguments on both sides. I think LandLang has incredible technique, but I don't personally like his playing. I don't care for his interpretations. I believe that some of his interpretation is simply to capture the general public who does not know anything about classical music. The very fact that he was on the Leno Show, playing HR #2, interpreting it in such a showy manner, and paying such little attention to a polished performance, shows that he is a little too focused on the fame and publicity. I love that he is trying to bring more people into classical music, but I don't believe that he is doing it in the right manner. I realize that some of his playing is genuine, and really does focus on the music, but I still don't care for most of it. But hell, I also don't care for some of Cziffra's or even some of Horowitz's playing. LangLang is young, and still has the opportunity to grow as a musician - I may love him in 20 years.
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
But when you get the audacity to try to convince me I shouldn't like him, then you've crossed the line.[/b] Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong.[/b]
I think that you are being slightly hypocritical. After all, wasn't this thread telling people who dislike LangLang that they are wrong? If me telling you that I don't care for LangLang is trying to convince you that you shouldn't like him, than your thread could be considered an attempt to convince me that I should like him. No one was trying to convince anyone of what they should or shouldn't like, and certainly no one has tried to "brainwash" anyone else. That is just absurd. People have simply expressed their opinions of LangLang. If that is "brainwashing", than any discussion could be considered to be "brainwashing".

I don't want to create any animosity between myself and anyone else in this discussion. I respect everyone here, and I also respect your opinions. (I have noticed some enmity growing between some posters, and I don't want that to happen with me) \:D
_________________________
- Zack -

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#546062 - 06/14/05 02:13 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by C.V. Alkan: After all, wasn't this thread telling people who dislike LangLang that they are wrong?
Plainly, no. I thought I made that clear.

I have nothing against those who dislike Lang Lang. But there is a difference between a polite discussion of dislike and an aggressive Salem Witch Trail-esque call to arms against people who show even a smidgen of support or defense for Lang Lang. This thread does not say "If you dislike Lang Lang, you're wrong and let me show you why." Absolutely not.

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#546063 - 06/14/05 02:20 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Forgive me if I'm wrong but, how I understood steinwaytony is that he is simply making the point that there is far too much brainwashing going on where people attempt to FORCE others whether through coercion or mass pressure to dislike Lang Lang because the opinion seems trendy when in reality as I have pointed out the LL detractors are in the VAST MINORITY.

Lang Lang is beloved by millions in many different countries and he is praised by his peers, Daniel Barenboim amongst others no less.

So to try to brainwash people who haven't heard much of him yet, that he's not worth it is absolutely outrageous.

I'm not a BIG fan of his but I have his CD's and I enjoy them on occasion.

In the end, I agree with the title, he's better than everyone here so what's the difference. No need to be bitter and jealous over his success, he has earned it through harder and longer work than any of you have ever done. So what HE decides to do with his payment of that work is up to HIM. He is in no way disgracing any masters because the masters are long dead and even when they lived they did not OWN their works. Once you compose it and you choose to send it out into the world, it is no longer yours and is open to full interpretation.
_________________________
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#546064 - 06/14/05 04:00 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
I hardly see how expressing one's opinion - however harsh, extreme, and overblown it may or may not be - in an environment such as Piano World could be considered "brainwashing".
_________________________
- Zack -

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#546065 - 06/14/05 04:10 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
SteinwayTony Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 222
Loc: New York, NY
If you haven't seen it happening, that's great.

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#546066 - 06/14/05 04:24 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Reaper Man Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 273
 Quote:
Originally posted by some guy who doesn't seem to have a clue...

Actually you're dead wrong, seeing as how the majority DISAGREES with you due to the fact that Lang Lang is highly successful, wealthy, boundlessly praised, and is received in a charior everywhere he goes.

[/QB]
So if your incredibly rich and successful, you have talent??? What about Steve O - He's rich and famous??? DOes he have any talent???

Being rich has NOTHING to do with Talent. Thought you would have figured that by now...

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#546067 - 06/14/05 05:59 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
That's funny, I remember listing SEVERAL attributes, one of which was fame DUE to his success and yet you chose to childishly single out fame and ignore everything else, such as the fact that most of LL's peers such as Daniel Barenboim and other famed composers and conductors praise him.

Way to go there Einstein.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546068 - 06/14/05 06:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
iamcanadian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1893
Loc: Canada
Earl Wild called him the Classical music equivalent of J-Lo

Sorry, but the fact is that FEW[/b] of LL's peers praise him.
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♪♫♪♫

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#546069 - 06/14/05 06:14 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Nice try, come back when you have proof other than ONE dubious quote. Don't erroneously use the word fact in place of the word conjecture.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546070 - 06/14/05 06:19 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
You did get my attention Tony. Great title. LOL \:D

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#546071 - 06/14/05 06:20 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:

Sorry, but the fact is that FEW[/b] of LL's peers praise him. [/QB]
Course they don't. They're feeling left in the dust, not understanding it *at* all and insanely jealous. \:D

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#546072 - 06/14/05 06:27 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Another reason that I don't, at this point in the man's career, care for LangLag:

My teacher, one of the most respected teachers in Colorado/Rocky Mountain Region, took one of his students (who happens to be the best young pianist in the Rocky Mountain region) to see LangLang last year. After the performance, LangLang was signing autographs. My teacher and the student went to speak to LangLang and have a conversation with him. After waiting in a long line of screaming fans, they walked up to LangLang to introduce themselves. LangLang grabbed my teachers program out of his hands, scribbled his signature across it and waved him aside. When my teacher protested and tried to introduce himself LangLang said rudely, "I don't have time for you, I already gave you my signature."

My teacher is close friends with many pianists (Marc-Andre Hamelin, Jean-Yves Thibaudet, Stephen Hough, Andre Watts, and many more) and has done and still does extensive research for their recordings - like finding rare music. He was going to introduce himself to LangLang and offer him his services. LangLang acted like a pop star with an overblown ego and dismissed him rudely. I have gone back stage to meet performers numerous times, and have never been treated like that.

LangLang behaves like a pop star. Look at what he did on the Leno Show. He only played to please the general public and gave no attention to detail. His giant gestures are to make people who don't know better say, "Wow, he must be really good." I saw a special on him on sixty minutes, and it felt like I was watching a special on MTV or E. It could easily have been 50 cent or Brittany Spears in his place - the difference is that LangLang has real talent. We all can see his incredible technical and musical abilities. However, in his immaturity, he chooses to make a fool of himself. I believe that this may go away as he grows as a performer and as a person.
_________________________
- Zack -

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#546073 - 06/14/05 06:33 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
As for all the talk about jealousy. Do you all honestly beleive that the people who don't like LangLang only dislike him because they are jealous? Of course we are jealous of him. We are also jealous of Cziffra, Horowitz, Hamelin, Hough, Beroff, etc. but no one is tearing them apart. People dislike him because of the reasons I gave in my above post. He acts like a pop star with an overblown ego, and that gets in the way of his musical abilities.

As a classical musician I pride myself in putting music above asthetics and popularity. I can see that Brittany Spears has no real music, but was only popular because of the media, her looks, and publicity. LangLang does have real music, however he is largly popular for the same reasons that Brittany Spears was - that angers a lot of people. If LangLang was to present himself as a musician - the same way Yundi Li, Thibaudet, and other pianists do - than I believe that none of the animosity towards him would exist.
_________________________
- Zack -

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#546074 - 06/14/05 06:40 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Boo hoo your world renowned teacher who is best friends with Stephen Hough, Marc Andre Hamelin, Jean-Yves Thibaudet, Andre Watts, Alfred Einstein, President Roosevelt, Jimmy Hoffa, private secretary to president Bush, assistant to Nelson Mandela, Knighted by the Queen, first astronaut to land on the moon, and the founder of Microsoft was brushed aside by the great "LandLang" or was that "LangLag?"

Big deal, Lang Lang doesn't have time for every little peon who comes up to him "offering him his services." What kind of nonsense is that, this is Lang Lang we're talking about. What manner of service can your teacher possibly offer Lang Lang who has nothing left to learn in the world of music?

To be quite honest, I'm surprised he didn't call security on your disgruntled little teacher and his world famous students. :rolleyes:


(p.s. this post was written as a joke to make light of the situation, in case anyone hasn't noticed... har har)
_________________________
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#546075 - 06/14/05 06:44 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
 Quote:
Originally posted by C.V. Alkan:
As for all the talk about jealousy. Do you all honestly beleive that the people who don't like LangLang only dislike him because they are jealous? Of course we are jealous of him. We are also jealous of Cziffra, Horowitz, Hamelin, Hough, Beroff, etc. but no one is tearing them apart.
[/b]
WHAT? No one is tearing them apart? I don't know how long you've been on these forums but before the trendy Lang Lang hating clique moved in, Hamelin, Cziffra, and Horowitz were amongst the biggest targets of absolute violent hatred and pianistic discrimination.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546076 - 06/14/05 06:54 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
iamcanadian Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1893
Loc: Canada
Give it a rest. Ok?
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♪♫♪♫

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#546077 - 06/14/05 07:30 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Opus_Maximus Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 1478
 Quote:
Originally posted by iamcanadian:
Give it a rest. Ok? [/b]
Well put. \:\)

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#546078 - 06/14/05 07:36 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
virtuoso418 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 645
 Quote:
(p.s. this post was written as a joke to make light of the situation, in case anyone hasn't noticed... har har)
hahahaha, you got a laugh out of me.

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#546079 - 06/14/05 10:35 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5279
Loc: Philadelphia
 Quote:
After waiting in a long line of screaming fans, they walked up to LangLang to introduce themselves. LangLang grabbed my teachers program out of his hands, scribbled his signature across it and waved him aside. When my teacher protested and tried to introduce himself LangLang said rudely, "I don't have time for you, I already gave you my signature."
That's funny. When I met Lang Lang, he was very polite....

 Quote:
LangLang behaves like a pop star. Look at what he did on the Leno Show. He only played to please the general public and gave no attention to detail. His giant gestures are to make people who don't know better say, "Wow, he must be really good." I saw a special on him on sixty minutes, and it felt like I was watching a special on MTV or E. It could easily have been 50 cent or Brittany Spears in his place - the difference is that LangLang has real talent. We all can see his incredible technical and musical abilities. However, in his immaturity, he chooses to make a fool of himself. I believe that this may go away as he grows as a performer and as a person.
It's called business. People who DO know better already go to concerts and see performers like Lang Lang on stage. Even you cannot deny his talent (as you said in the above quote).

But Lang Lang is not trying to attract you. You will already naturally be attracted to the music. What Lang Lang is doing is something perhaps three or four pianists in the history of the piano have ever done...he's attracting everybody else. And that requires something a little different than what the classical world is accustomed to.

 Quote:
As for all the talk about jealousy. Do you all honestly beleive that the people who don't like LangLang only dislike him because they are jealous? Of course we are jealous of him. We are also jealous of Cziffra, Horowitz, Hamelin, Hough, Beroff, etc. but no one is tearing them apart.
Please, I hear people tear Horowitz apart on a regular basis. In fact, you'll probably see it three or four times in the top ten threads of this forum. Same goes for Rubinstein (whom you did not mention), Cliburn (whom you also did not mention), and the rest whom you did...though it's usually the most popular name that gets torn apart the most. ;\)

 Quote:
If LangLang was to present himself as a musician - the same way Yundi Li, Thibaudet, and other pianists do - than I believe that none of the animosity towards him would exist.
Yes, but if Lang Lang does that, the classical world will continue to dwindle. The Britney Spears fans will never appreciate classical music, and the 50 cent fans will never have heard of Lang Lang. The "pop" world will dominate, and eventually, decimate the world of classical music.

What Lang Lang is doing is bringing classical music to a better place. Guess what Lang Lang did on the Leno show? He attracted a whole new audience to classical music, who, before the show, probably would never have thought about buying a ticket to see a classical concert. But I'll bet you some of them did buy tickets after the show, and now follow Lang Lang's career at the very least. So, Lang Lang is helping to bring classical music back into the mainstream.

It'll take time, and I'm sure the "true musicians" (whatever that means) will continue to scoff at Lang Lang, but he'll laugh all the way to the bank and the history books. Barring injury or some other "act of God", I'm certain of that.

 Quote:
What manner of service can your teacher possibly offer Lang Lang who has nothing left to learn in the world of music?
Well, I wouldn't go that far. The day we stop learning is the first worthless day of our lives. ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#546080 - 06/14/05 11:37 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Reaper Man Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 273
 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
What manner of service can your teacher possibly offer Lang Lang who has nothing left to learn in the world of music? [/b]
1) No Pianist in the world knows everything, and cannot be taught something new - ABSOLUTELY NO-ONE because there are hundreds of years of music, millions of pieces to play, there is no such thing as a Perfect Pianist... It is against the laws of Humanity. You can always get better. Always

2) What does any teacher have to teach Lang Lang???? How about BLOODY EVERYTHING!!!!

If I honestly heard Lang Lang play one piece of Classical Music PROPERLY Just to show that he can do it, I would lay off him. But it's his attitude to take Brilliant works of art and turn it into a shadow of it's former brilliance and screw it around and bash it about and sell it to a bunch of people who just love the fact that he can play fast... and get plenty of moolah from it.

If he wants to bugger up Classical Pieces... let him create his own and BUGGER THEM UP!!!

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#546081 - 06/14/05 11:42 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Nah, you're wrong. Lang Lang's perfect, he has nothing left to learn.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546082 - 06/14/05 11:51 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Frungy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 283
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Reaper, I find your comments puzzling because you posted this previously about David Helfgott (after everyone was bashing him and his Mach 3)

<<
Can we give poor Bloody Helfgott a rest. Talk about someone else for christ sake. All we've had are billions of posts bagging how sh!t David Helfgott is.... He's a pianist just like every other pianist, and has had his great moments, and his bad moments.

Give it a god damn rest and talk about something worthwhile.

Why beat a dead horse....
>>

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#546083 - 06/15/05 12:04 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5279
Loc: Philadelphia
 Quote:
Why beat a dead horse....
It's fun? *confused* :p *laughs* ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#546084 - 06/15/05 01:16 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Requiem, I realize that your post was a joke, but it still missed the point I was making. No, of course my teacher isn't the greatest person the world has ever seen - I wasn't saying that. I was simply making the point that LangLang was too caught up in his ego to give a fellow musician the time of day. And he does have a lot to offer; he has found rare music that a lot of performers have used as encores and on their recordings. I wasn't saying that LangLang needed this, but he was rude before he gave him a chance.

And Derulux, if that is the direction that classical music has to go to survive... I say let it die. The point I was trying to make was that classical music is focused on the music, and pop is focused on the aesthetics. I don't want classical to transfrom into anything resembling pop. LangLang is introducing classical to the rest of the world in the wrong way, I believe.
_________________________
- Zack -

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#546085 - 06/15/05 01:30 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
He finds rare music? What does he dig it up in a treasure chest or something? Or does he sit on google for 8 hours everyday looking at those strange russian websites litered with porn links and free music no one's ever heard of?
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546086 - 06/15/05 02:20 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
princessclara2005 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 429
Loc: Dallas, Texas
-sigh-

why all LL thread end up in argument? and personal attack? and the argument about how classical music should be known?

nothing is wrong about acting like a pop star, says who classical music should be introduced in certain way? the truth is, classical music is dying, it's not popular, and classical musicians are out of job, if anything that anyone can do that promotes seating in concert hall, promotes people's interests in classical music, it will help us - classical musicicans to make better money, to be more respected.

LL is an eye opener, something new and fresh, something that at least attracted more people to listen and want to know more about classical music, is that all that bad?

Also, for dismissing certain people backstage, I guess you should see that's coming to begin with, list famous people who talk to everyone in the crowd, nicely and patiently. The thing is they are the star, they don't have time for everyone.

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#546087 - 06/15/05 02:52 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
chiaying Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 8
When I watched Lang Lang live in concert, I didn't think that his playing warrants such negative remarks. True, he makes excessive unnecessary gestures while playing, and I wouldn't rate him as the most sensitive pianist but his performance was nonetheless an enjoyable experience.

Now... I don't know anything about this Leno performance, but for all its apparent lack of musicality, I don't think it's fair to say that that is a wrong way of promoting classical music. Sure, he could have done better, but then think of artistes like Maxim and Bond girls -- the classical crossover genre desecrates classical music way more than Lang Lang can ever achieve. *That* is what I'd call the Wrong Way. At the least, Lang Lang did something positive in promoting classical music.

Somehow I feel disappointed to hear musicians utter the phrase 'let classical music die'. How can classical music lovers bear to face extinction? Fortunately, there's another direction classical music can go to survive -- not to bring the music down to the level of the general public, but to bring the level of musical appreciation of the general public up to the intellectual level of classical music. Difficult task, but.....

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#546088 - 06/15/05 03:34 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5279
Loc: Philadelphia
 Quote:
And Derulux, if that is the direction that classical music has to go to survive... I say let it die. The point I was trying to make was that classical music is focused on the music, and pop is focused on the aesthetics. I don't want classical to transfrom into anything resembling pop. LangLang is introducing classical to the rest of the world in the wrong way, I believe.
Then you must not be a fan of Liszt, either. ;\)


I would have to explain a lot of marketing concepts to get you to understand what Lang Lang accomplished on the Leno show, or at least I presume I would, considering music (and not business) is your life. I make this presumption based on the fact that you'd understand exactly what Lang Lang did, and you would be praising him for it (and not berating him). What he has done has re-introduced classical music to the general public. Who cares what it sounds like on Leno? You do what you have to do in order to get people interested. THEN, when they show up to the concert hall, they experience the "real deal". It's all marketing, selling... and the sad truth is 99.4% of musicians DON'T know how to sell themselves (which is why nobody's ever heard of them). ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#546089 - 06/15/05 03:53 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
princessclara2005 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 429
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Derulux...not knowing how to market ourself as classical musicians, that's so true!! and that is why classical music are dying, and classical musicians are jobless. C

Classical musicians tend to tend to superior themselves from others, think of themselves as elites, I am a classical pianist, I can see the reason why we think we are special because music is hard, and we had put in a lot of hard work into it, and you have to have talent to understand it, but I hate when people put themself out of reach...and hate more when there is someone who try to reach out, and then he was labelled as an bad example of classical musicians.

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#546090 - 06/15/05 04:43 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Rob Mullins Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 309
Loc: LA CA
Hi,
Gosh I wish I had time today to sit here with a bag of popcorn and watch all this mayhem on these Lang Lang threads-some good laughs are to be had by anyone reading this stuff. Back to the studio.....
_________________________
Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
Two openings in my private lessons program starting in Nov.

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#546091 - 06/15/05 05:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Piana Justice Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Greenville, NC
 Quote:
Originally posted by SteinwayTony:
Got your attention, didn't I? Thought so.

Many people have complained about how often the Lang debate has gone on, then died, then came back up. I personally don't care, because I relish every opportunity I get to put idiots in their proper place.

Since Lang has emerged, I've formed a rather sweeping opinion of his critics: in general, they are closed-minded, viciously stubborn, vehemently opposed to any form of change of the "music" to which they are accustomed. And these are just the amateur classical music fans. From pianists, both aspiring and professional, I've noticed a particularly disheartening trait: jealousy. They can scream and banter and argue all you want, but their defensiveness only reassures me of my case.

When I witnessed some moron spew some crap about Lang's desecrating Hungarian Rhapsody No.2, I couldn't believe my eyes. What a poor, sad, lost soul. You treat certain pieces and composers as if they were the craftwork of God himself. Have some self-respect. Decide for yourself[/b] what you like and what you don't. Putting a concerto or a composer on a pedestal, a concept that has been a foundation for the case against Lang (he ruined X, I'll never forgive him), is dangerous logically. You're painting a metaphorical bullseye on yourself. Not to mention you just look immature and plain stupid. A piece is just a piece--there are reasons why there are numerous different recordings. And if a bad one comes out, life goes on.

When all the miserable ogres hopped on their computers after Lang's Leno show appearance as I knew they would, I just wanted to gather them in a room and give them a collective slap across the face. People complained, naturally[/b], that there was no musicality in his performance...of Hungarian Rhapsody No.2. Gee whiz, guys, I wonder why that could be. He wasn't trying to move a college-age audience to tears.[/b] I think that was evident by his choice of repertoire, don't you? And we all know that when I want to hear emotional music in all its tear-jerking glory[/b], I reach right for Hungarian Rhapsody No.2.[/b] I don't know about you guys, but to me, it's just an improvisational showpiece that was showcased to the public in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" and cartoons. Cartoons.[/b] These half-wits really turned on the television to NBC and expected musicality from a cartoon soundtrack? (Wow, they're even loonier[/b], excuse the pun, than I thought.)

The case against Lang's "musicality" is a logical nightmare for the poor soul who ventures to raise it (again) from its grave. "He's not musical," they say. What a crock. What a stubborn, empty, and deliberately vague cop-out. "Lang Lang go Bang Bang," you say. "Lang Lang uses too many gestures." So what? If you don't like it, don't look at him. I have no problem if you don't prefer his manurisms (but if you whine about Lang Lang whilst professing your undying love for Glenn Gould, despite all of his antics, you'd best keep your situation to yourself). But when you get the audacity to try to convince me I shouldn't like him, then you've crossed the line.[/b] Nobody has the right to tell another person who is right, and who is wrong. If you had it your way, we'd live in a wacky, oppressive, and probably very boring world. If I want to like Lang Lang, I will. [/b]
amen to dat. true dat. you don't know HOW long i've waited for someone to tell these idiots how the 'COW ATE THE CABBAGE' [as the ol' Southern sayin' goes] when it comes down to the Lang-Lang [or Bang-Bang] debate. it's about doggpone friggin' time. i could careless about Lang-Lang's stage presence, b/c i don't really know him, nor is a fan. i've seen him perform before, and i have to say that he's good, even though i'm not an expert on classical pieces. [i don't intend to get classical training, b/c i'm pretty much content with playing pop music on the iv'ries.]

we've been over this over and over again, and i really wish people would give this a rest, b/c quite frankly, i'm fed up. it's not like their comments [or critisms, better yet,] is gonna change the man. you know what i think this is? it's jealousy. that's what it is. it just goes to show that some people need to GET A LIFE and quit hatin' on someone they don't know. 'don't hate; congragulate', *snaps fingers* like i heard a transvestite say. besides, i've seen more ANNOYING performers in MY time that i just downright LOATHE.

so i say, 'TROLLS, Lang-Lang Bashers, or WHATEVER, WHOEVER the HELL you are, leave the man alone and get a life!!! you not gonna change anyone by bashing them! no one cares about that mess!' stop starting these threads, b/c it's pointless! i could careless! maybe he's better than a lot you will EVER be. the man has a gift, and he's only using it to the best of his ablilities by putting all of his heart, soul, mind- and yes, BODY- into his performances. ain't he entitled to mess up a piece and improvise, unlike some of you old fogy-headed people, who lack creativity and *ahem, cough* STAGE PRESENCE?!

for PETE'S SAKE, he's only human, like the rest of us, but with an unspeakable ability to conquer the ivories. just leave it alone, b/c you're only hurtin' your own stupid selves, even though you're entitled to your opinion. there's just some things you keep to yourself, lest it'll get you in trouble. by saying the man's no good on the Piano, simply b/c he doesn't play like YOU, you're only talking about yourself. i mean, GET OVER yoursleves, and get a life, 'cause face the MUSIC, b/c LANG-LANG is BETTER THAN YOU.
_________________________

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#546092 - 06/15/05 05:08 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
anor Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1232
Loc: Santiago, Chile
after reading all this...

you know what?


I'M BETTER THAN LANG LANG!!!


how'd you like that? hahahaha

_________________________
ss ao lr ue dt on si .u dq ar no on ra qd u. is no td eu rl oa ss

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#546093 - 06/15/05 05:12 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Piana Justice Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Greenville, NC
well, then PROVE it, then. if you were really better than him, then you wouldn't have to prove yourself. besides, i don't compare my piano skills to his.
_________________________

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#546094 - 06/15/05 06:06 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
C.V. Alkan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Denver, Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by Derulux:
I would have to explain a lot of marketing concepts to get you to understand what Lang Lang accomplished on the Leno show, or at least I presume I would, considering music (and not business) is your life. I make this presumption based on the fact that you'd understand exactly what Lang Lang did, and you would be praising him for it (and not berating him).[/b]
:rolleyes: Oh, enlighten me Mr. Buisiness Man.
\:D ;\) Both my parents are MBA's and my brother is a buisiness/econ major. I get enough lecturing at home.

I am not denying the marketing genius behind LangLang. The man knows how to market himself, obviously, or he wouldn't be as popular as he is.

I am officially going to make this my last post on this topic. The same discussion, as so many have pointed out, has been going on and we are going nowhere. We all have different opinions on the matter and I'm willing leave it at that.
_________________________
- Zack -

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#546095 - 06/15/05 09:50 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5279
Loc: Philadelphia
 Quote:
Derulux...not knowing how to market ourself as classical musicians, that's so true!! and that is why classical music are dying, and classical musicians are jobless. C
Yes, I've been seeing that more and more as I look at the classical world. There's really a very simple reason why classical music went under (poor marketing), though that reason is based on a number of complex issues, ranging from simple lack of knowledge to complete arrogance on the part of the "classicists".

Danor[/b]- I realize others may not have found the humor in your post, but I laughed. Gracias. ;\)

Both my parents are MBA's and my brother is a buisiness/econ major. I get enough lecturing at home. [/b]
Then you don't need it from my Marketing BS...and then I'm sure you should be well aware of the issues. But take a second look at what's been said...I'm sure you can pull out the basics of what I was getting at. You have, after all, gotten enough lecturing elsewhere. :p ;\)

 Quote:
We all have different opinions on the matter and I'm willing leave it at that.
Ah, I don't care if you like or hate Lang Lang. I just want the decision to be well-informed on all sides of the playing field. That's why I don't say things such as, "Like Lang Lang because I do." (Which, I think we can agree, we've seen enough of for several forums...) :p ;\)
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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#546096 - 06/16/05 01:28 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Reaper Man Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 273
 Quote:
Originally posted by anor:
after reading all this...

you know what?


I'M BETTER THAN LANG LANG!!!


how'd you like that? hahahaha

[/b]
GOD BLESS YOU FOR THAT!!! I was waiting for SOMEONE to say it. \:\) \:D

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#546097 - 06/16/05 02:50 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Requiem Aeternam Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Yea ok, Lang Lang could use one hand and still beat you in a piano competition.
_________________________
"He who turns himself into a beast, gets rid of the pain of being a man."

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#546098 - 06/16/05 05:16 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
What's the big deal about this Lang Lang guy. God, he's only a dude who loves playing the piano. We shouldn't criticize him just, just let him be. He's obviously havin fun and enjoyin what he does. Afterall, isn't that not why we all joined this forum - to celebrate the piano and all the joy it brings us. Some of you guys need to lighten up and get off the poor mans case!
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#546099 - 06/16/05 06:00 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
B Man Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 230
 Quote:

What's the big deal about this Lang Lang guy
To understand the discussion here, I suggest an experiment.

1. Go to a Michael-Jackson-Fanclub

2. Say something critical, like "but his nose is funny"

3. Listen carefully to the answers of the fans and groupies.

Then come back to this thread and read posting number one.

Everything clear?

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#546100 - 06/16/05 06:01 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by C.V. Alkan:
Another reason that I don't, at this point in the man's career, care for LangLag:

LangLang behaves like a pop star. Look at what he did on the Leno Show. He only played to please the general public and gave no attention to detail. His giant gestures are to make people who don't know better say, "Wow, he must be really good." I saw a special on him on sixty minutes, and it felt like I was watching a special on MTV or E. It could easily have been 50 cent or Brittany Spears in his place - the difference is that LangLang has real talent. We all can see his incredible technical and musical abilities. However, in his immaturity, he chooses to make a fool of himself. I believe that this may go away as he grows as a performer and as a person. [/b]
You raise an interesting point. He may indeed be a complete richardhead. But, if he is exposing the broad public to the beauty of classical music (even if just the schmaltz and bluster of classical music), more power to him. I am so much happier seeing the likes of Lang Lang achieving fame and wealth for his talent than the likes total no-talents like Britney Spears and Christine Aguilero.

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#546101 - 06/16/05 06:21 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
***musical princess*** Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 537
Loc: Newcastle, England
What is up with you Thomas F. You must either like to totally contradict what someone else says or you are just an idiot. You make it seem that i was being critical of Lang Lang when it was infact the complete opposite. I was sticking up for the poor soul. And please don't patronize me, i fully understand what this thread is about. The 'big deal' i was reffering to was the attitude of all of the close-minded critics... not the man's ability to play the piano.
_________________________
x Caroline x

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#546102 - 06/16/05 10:09 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
princessclara2005 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 429
Loc: Dallas, Texas
QUOTE] I am so much happier seeing the likes of Lang Lang achieving fame and wealth for his talent than the likes total no-talents like Britney Spears and Christine Aguilero. [/QB][/QUOTE]

EXACTLY!!

I still don't understand why some classical music lovers or musicians still don't get the picture, and still remains so old schooled, this is not the 18th century, classical music is not the only option people choose to be entertained, it also puzzles me why some classical musicians and music lovers put classical music so superior, after all, it's just one type of music for expression.

LL has done well, at least for popularizing classical music, while others, just watching it dying.

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#546103 - 06/16/05 11:08 AM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Perhaps Frank should consider starting a Lang Lang forum. It would make the old Coffee Room look like your grandma's bridge club.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#546104 - 06/16/05 12:01 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Rodolpho Portamento Fritzweil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 340
\:o

 Quote:
Originally posted by ***musical princess***:
What is up with you Thomas F. You must either like to totally contradict what someone else says or you are just an idiot. [/b]
\:o \:o

MODERATORS ! MODERATORS ! PERSONAL ATTACK ![/b]

So... you registered yesterday and you already started personal insults ! Way to go !

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#546105 - 06/16/05 12:03 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
B Man Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 230
 Quote:
Originally posted by ***musical princess***:
What is up with you Thomas F. You must either like to totally contradict what someone else says or you are just an idiot. [/b]
Thanks for your balanced words.

I wonder if I should tell you that you completely missed the point?

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#546106 - 06/16/05 12:14 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Brendan Offline



Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 5283
Loc: McAllen, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
Ah it's ok friend, I enjoy drinking beer and fine wines all day, living in the lap of luxury in the greatest country on Earth, every convenience at the command of my every whim while you dredge in the muck for every last rupee, sheckle, or peso you can find to finance hay for your horse and buggy while I drive around Manhattan in my Lexus.
[/b]


 Quote:
Originally posted by Requiem Aeternam:
He finds rare music? What does he dig it up in a treasure chest or something? Or does he sit on google for 8 hours everyday looking at those strange russian websites litered with porn links and free music no one's ever heard of?
[/b]

 Quote:
Originally posted by Piana Justice
so i say, 'TROLLS, Lang-Lang Bashers, or WHATEVER, WHOEVER the HELL you are, leave the man alone and get a life!!! you not gonna change anyone by bashing them! no one cares about that mess!' stop starting these threads, b/c it's pointless! i could careless! maybe he's better than a lot you will EVER be. the man has a gift, and he's only using it to the best of his ablilities by putting all of his heart, soul, mind- and yes, BODY- into his performances. ain't he entitled to mess up a piece and improvise, unlike some of you old fogy-headed people, who lack creativity and *ahem, cough* STAGE PRESENCE?!
[/b]

 Quote:
Originally posted by ***musical princess***
What is up with you Thomas F. You must either like to totally contradict what someone else says or you are just an idiot.
[/b]


Thread closed.
_________________________
http://www.BrendanKinsella.com

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#546107 - 06/16/05 12:26 PM Re: Lang Lang is better than you.
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13759
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Moderator #2 concurring with the decision...
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Help for Newbie
by PianoJill
07/23/14 10:18 AM
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