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OP
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My question was prompted by another interesting thread about Chopin Preludes. I know that there are quite a few of us here with small hands (I have to stretch to reach an octave) and I wondered if anyone can suggest good editions of Chopin Preludes (and other works, for that matter) with good fingering for small hands.
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Here's a link to an earlier thread - although I'm not sure it helps much in the way of practical recommendations http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/2/18101/2.html
"There are so many mornings that have not yet dawned." -- Rg Veda
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This is a more general discussion on the topic, but I found this article very helpful for small-handed people (I consider my hands small - I can reach a 9th with effort, but my max comfort zone is an octave): http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2493/is_6_52/ai_102521600/pg_1
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You must write your own fingering according to your own hands. Different fingering suits different hands even if they're the same exact size.
But remember that your hand can stretch more. Keep practicing the wide chords and your stretch will increase or you will be able to reach wide chords with more confort.
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Originally posted by Danny Niklas: You must write your own fingering according to your own hands. Different fingering suits different hands even if they're the same exact size.
This is SO important. As a teacher I make fingering suggestions and then observe what happens. Something that works perfectly smoothly for me may cause an uncomfortable stretch (or other movement) that throws monkey wrench into everything. At that point we will try many fingerings, together, until we find one that works. Btw, I tried to send you a short PM. Your box is full. Gary
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Originally posted by Gary D.: Btw, I tried to send you a short PM. Your box is full. Empty now
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Chopin himself had very small hands. The issue is that it requires utmost flexibility.
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Originally posted by Fleeting Visions: Chopin himself had very small hands. The issue is that it requires utmost flexibility. http://www.crosstops.com/Classical/4906.htm From this site: http://www.crosstops.com/Classical/4906.htm I'd say that Chopin's grip could strike a tenth cleanly, but it's something he only very rarely prescribes (there's a famously tricky LH one in the coda to the 2nd Ballade, for example) but filling in chordally within the tenth, his extensions could be quite fearsome. (Bars 184-190 of the Allegro de Concert op. 46 demonstrate the most extreme form he ever wrote, and they are utterly daunting to strike cleanly at speed, as demanded.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cast_of_Chopin%27s_hand.JPG This does not look like a "small hand", for several reasons. First, look at the enormous gaps between fingers 4 and 5 plus the one between 2 and 3. Also notice (among other things) the long first joints of the fingers. Finally, we can't tell from this picture about the thumb extension, but I would wager his was close to 180% from the 5th finger. The important thing is not how the hand looks but how it plays.
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I have been told by others that Chopin had very small hand. A pianist told me he put his hand in the Chopin hand cast and that it seemed like a small girl hand. But I've never seen the cast so I can't tell personally.
What I can tell is that without a point of reference you can't tell whether something is big or small. For example if you take a pic of a young 8 year old child hand with long fingers and wide palm but without a teeneage hand to compare in the same pic, it could very well look very big.
In fact slender children, in solo photos, look very tall. Their body structure makes them appear tall and without a tall person next to them for a comparison you can't realize they're actually 3.9 foot.
Just the other day a person send me the scan of a mini-tape with a coin next to it. Only thanks to the coin I realized how small the tape was. Without it the tape looked as big as a normal tape.
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Originally posted by Danny Niklas: I have been told by others that Chopin had very small hand. A pianist told me he put his hand in the Chopin hand cast and that it seemed like a small girl hand. But I've never seen the cast so I can't tell personally. Well, this is a banner day indeed. In the Chopin Preludes thread , the tired allegation that Chopin's music is "feminine" was repeated anew ... and now this? What would motivate anyone to say that the cast of a man's hand seemed like a "small girl hand"? Even were it child-sized, would it not seem like a small boy hand? Can someone tell me what physical characteristics differentiate a small girl's hand from a small boy's hand? If they are indeed indistinguishable, what meaning is intended by a statement that a man's childlike hands are girlish rather than boyish? It's clear to me that such a deliberately distorted description reflects a motive to impugn Chopin's gender identity, masculinity or sexuality. I have no problem with androgyny, intersexuality or nonconforming sexual orientations, but I have a lot of trouble with the disapproval unsubtly implied by smirky, barely-coded references like this one. Steven p.s. Danny, I know you were just relating this story. I don't mean my criticism as an indictment of you personally for sharing it!
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p.s. Danny, I know you were just relating this story. I don't mean my criticism as an indictment of you personally for sharing it! As you can imagine I had a similar reaction. What in the world are feminine hands? In another forum someone posted hand pic. A member replied saying "you've beautiful hands, I hope you're a girl". And the author of the pic replied "of course I'm a girl, if I were a boy my hands would be so gay" I guess it's a good thing these kind of things makes you speechless. At least you can't waste time reacting or worse yet posting. But personally I would get more irritated by the concept that music can be feminime or masculine, clearly using old obsolete false stereotype about masculinity being virile, strong, harsh, powerful and feminine being emotional, passional, soothing, soft. No comment!
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Steven, If the ring finger is longer than the index finger, it is usually a man's or boy's hand; if the index finger is longer than the ring finger, it is usually a woman's or girl's hand. This phenomenon is called the "digit ratio". Read about it here: Digit ratio Of course, we need a good pic of the cast to decide about Chopin's hands.
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Horowitzian: Of course, we need a good pic of the cast to decide about Chopin's hands. [/QB] So, is there some place where one can buy a reproduction of that cast? You'd think so, but I don't recall ever seeing it on anybody's piano, or for sale.
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Thanks, all, for your interesting input.
eric-626, many thanks for the link to the article. I'm aware of having to move my wrists more than I see others do and stretch my hands into quite a 'rigid' position to play large (well, large for me!) chords. The article provides useful strategies for achieving objectives and avoiding injuries.
Danny and Gary D, I also have come to the conclusion that fingering is very much individual. It takes me a long time to work through a new piece largely because of the time taken to try suitable fingerings. Maybe my life's work should be published as 'Beautiful Piano Works Butchered by a Pathetically Small-handed Pianist'!
Thanks for the link to the image of Chopin's hand cast, Gary. Beautiful and elegant, but small? Itlooks huge compared to mine. The wrist to fingertip measurement of 8" is at least 1" longer than mine as well.
Fascinating information about digit ratio, Horowitzian. Again, thnaks for the interesting link.
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Originally posted by wr: Originally posted by Horowitzian: Of course, we need a good pic of the cast to decide about Chopin's hands. So, is there some place where one can buy a reproduction of that cast? You'd think so, but I don't recall ever seeing it on anybody's piano, or for sale. [/QB]Me neither.
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by fingersandthumbs: The wrist to fingertip measurement of 8" is at least 1" longer than mine as well.
But it's a picture. It is not the real size. I could take a pic of my 1 year old cousin minute hand and it would look very big on picture.
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