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#550076 - 11/01/08 12:26 AM Re: Rachmaninoff worst performance
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 15666
Loc: Victoria, BC
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gary D.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
Well, you know Iain, those old, but short-lived composers such as Mozart and Schubert and Chopin just didn't have the time to write in all the details in the great music they were writing, so it certainly was up to the editors to put in the details that the composer(s) didn't have time for. That's the job of an editor!
Actually, Chopin was rather meticulous. [/b]
- except, of course, when he left Fontana the job of re-copying or writing out scores for his (Chopin's) publisher(s).
 Quote:
The Mozart edition I have, which is the one I prefer, does leave a student pretty much in the dark.

There is a difference in philosphy, perhaps. Some composers attempt to make sure people follow their wishes by adding many markings, while others seem to trust that other musicians will make wise choices without such help. [/b]
As for the rest of my "quote", I hope you don't think I was being serious.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#550077 - 11/01/08 02:56 PM Re: Rachmaninoff worst performance
Iain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 545
Loc: London, UK
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gary D.:
Actually, Chopin was rather meticulous. The Mozart edition I have, which is the one I prefer, does leave a student pretty much in the dark.

There is a difference in philosphy, perhaps. Some composers attempt to make sure people follow their wishes by adding many markings, while others seem to trust that other musicians will make wise choices without such help. [/b]
Very true, and it seems that composers have gotten more precise in their scores over the centuries, from figured bass to Boulez. However, many of the details in the score would be obvious to players of the time, such as apoggiaturas in classical repertoire being accented and on the beat, or avoiding consecutive 5ths and octaves in baroque realizations.

I for one like a score as empty of fingering and editorial conceits as possible. The possibilities for unique interpretation are so much greater, and all it takes is a little bit of research into the playing style of the time.

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#550078 - 11/01/08 03:56 PM Re: Rachmaninoff worst performance
Gary D. Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD:
except, of course, when he left Fontana the job of re-copying or writing out scores for his (Chopin's) publisher(s).
And that brings up the whole subject of Chopin compositions that he supposedly did not want published. \:\)
 Quote:
Originally posted by Iain:
I for one like a score as empty of fingering and editorial conceits as possible. The possibilities for unique interpretation are so much greater, and all it takes is a little bit of research into the playing style of the time.
I have another point of view. I think that many markings give us the illusion that we can realize what composers want, when in fact it doesn't seem to work that way.

If we listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfSBddhFvyA

We immediately find out that Debussy clearly doubles time in several places, so incredibly important tempo indication are missing from the music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsdIkUSjXv8

Michelangeli does not observe the tempo changes in Debussy's recording but follows the score. I believe he would have made these tempo changes if he had been able to hear the recording, because they work so well. It's very clear at the end, where the last four measures are twice as slow as Debussy's recording.

Even stranger, this young player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg5hvGS7X7w

does observe all Debussy's tempo changes except for the last four bars, so it is obvious he is aware of Debussy's recording but then decided, for some unknown reason, to observe all but the last one.

Regardless, I have concluded from recordings of Rachmaninov and others who have played their own music that the idea that all the markings in the world in a score are going to get us really close to exactly what they wanted is at best very misleading.
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#550079 - 11/01/08 04:17 PM Re: Rachmaninoff worst performance
Thracozaag Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: KC, MO
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gary D.:

Regardless, I have concluded from recordings of Rachmaninov and others who have played their own music that the idea that all the markings in the world in a score are going to get us really close to exactly what they wanted is at best very misleading. [/b]
Working with living composers only reinforces this impression.
_________________________
"I'm a concert pianist--that's a pretentious way of saying I'm unemployed at the moment."--Oscar Levant

http://www.youtube.com/kojiattwood

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