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Topic Options
#553109 - 02/01/09 09:17 PM Battle of the Toccatas!
topspinwu Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 6
The contenders:
Liszt Toccata
Prokofiev Toccata
Khachaturian Toccata
Ravel Toccata
Schumann Toccata
Bach Toccata \:D

Which do you think are the hardest/most fun to hear?

I personally like the Prokofiev ^_^

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#553110 - 02/01/09 09:21 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Prokofiev and Schumann for me; though I likely have little hope of playing any of them well. \:\(
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#553111 - 02/01/09 10:21 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
MarkH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 853
Loc: Seattle, WA
The multiple Bach Toccatas and the Prokofiev are by far the best works on your list IMO.

Perhaps you'd like to add the Debussy Toccata from Pour Le Piano, and the Godowsky Toccata (certainly a lesser work, but it fits if the Liszt goes on the list)?

Does anybody else strongly dislike the Schumann Toccata? I really want to like it, as I like most high-strung virtuoso works, but I find it harmonically uninteresting, and I find all the fluttering over the same chords to be really tiresome.
_________________________
Currently Studying: Bach - English Suite No. 5; Beethoven - Op. 27 No. 1; Chopin - Op. 27 No. 1; Chopin - 3rd Scherzo

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#553112 - 02/01/09 10:50 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8825
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
 Quote:
Originally posted by MarkH:
Does anybody else strongly dislike the Schumann Toccata?
I rather like it. If you've seen the score to Czerny's toccata, it's quite obvious that Schumann knew it. Both Horowitz and Richter have given us landmark recordings of the Schumann, and reportedly Martha Argerich 'warms up' with it.

One of my favourites is certainly Busoni's outstanding transcription of Bach's Toccata, Adagio & Fugue, another Horowitz specialty.

As for non-organ Bach, the C minor Toccata is IMO, one of the best he wrote. But I like the D major also, and then there's the G major, a precursor to Bach's overwhelming P&F in G (BWV 541) for organ.
_________________________
Jason

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#553113 - 02/01/09 11:19 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
DameMyra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1940
Loc: South Jersey
Of course, there are many other toccatas you could also include: the Debussy (already mentioned), Saint-Saens, Sancan, Ben-Haim, Cuellar, Menotti, Tcherpnin, Muczynski, Poulenc and I'm sure there are others I've forgotten. (The Bach toccatas are really not the same animal as the others.) I happen to love the Schumann, especially that gorgeous lyrical second subject and that wonderful simple ending.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA

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#553114 - 02/01/09 11:21 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
I like Chopin's 10/7.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#553115 - 02/01/09 11:27 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
akonow Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 589
Loc: Los Angeles
I quite like Ravel's Toccata from La Tombeau de Couperin but Schumann's Toccata takes the cake for me. I find it so dynamic and dreamy even though it's a toccata.
_________________________
Bach - WTC I in C major & C minor (BWV 846-847)
Mozart - Sonata K 282
Chopin - Polonaises Op 26
Schumann - Fantasiestücke Op 12

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#553116 - 02/01/09 11:31 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Fleeting Visions Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1501
Loc: Champaign, IL
 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by MarkH:
Does anybody else strongly dislike the Schumann Toccata?
I rather like it. If you've seen the score to Czerny's toccata, it's quite obvious that Schumann knew it. Both Horowitz and Richter have given us landmark recordings of the Schumann, and reportedly Martha Argerich 'warms up' with it.

One of my favourites is certainly Busoni's outstanding transcription of Bach's Toccata, Adagio & Fugue, another Horowitz specialty.

As for non-organ Bach, the C minor Toccata is IMO, one of the best he wrote. But I like the D major also, and then there's the G major, a precursor to Bach's overwhelming P&F in G (BWV 541) for organ. [/b]
Schumann's sequencing and counterpoint are enough to make me love the piece.

I personally like the Bach keyboard toccatas. Those are perfectly balanced works, complete in counterpoint, form, and three movements.
_________________________
Amateur Pianist, Scriabin Enthusiast, and Octave Demon

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#553117 - 02/01/09 11:41 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13763
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Bach c minor

Schumann
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#553118 - 02/01/09 11:47 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Loki Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/05
Posts: 1035
Loc: Texas
Bach e minor

Prokofiev
_________________________
Houston, Texas

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#553119 - 02/02/09 02:15 AM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5422
Loc: Orange County, CA
I adore the Toccata from Bach's Partita No. 6!!

I also like the Bowen Toccata.

Not a big fan of the Schumann...
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#553120 - 02/02/09 04:14 AM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
pianovirus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Basel, Switzerland
I think the term 'toccata' made quite some development over the centuries. As a consequence, I find relatively little in common to compare between the Bach toccatas (single- and multi-movement) and the post-Baroque toccatas mentioned here. Baroque toccatas might even be closer to what has later been called "fantasy" - mainly a written improvisation (possibly with, but not limited to, virtuosic elements). In contrast, in later times, toccatas generally became much closer to etudes, often via a "perpetual motion" element (see also Steven's allusion to 10/7). Exceptions which connect more directly to the Baroque tradition include Reger's organ toccatas.
_________________________
youtube.com/user/pianovirus

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#553121 - 02/02/09 05:12 AM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7767
 Quote:
Originally posted by pianovirus:
I think the term 'toccata' made quite some development over the centuries. As a consequence, I find relatively little in common to compare between the Bach toccatas (single- and multi-movement) and the post-Baroque toccatas mentioned here. Baroque toccatas might even be closer to what has later been called "fantasy" - mainly a written improvisation (possibly with, but not limited to, virtuosic elements). In contrast, in later times, toccatas generally became much closer to etudes, often via a "perpetual motion" element (see also Steven's allusion to 10/7). Exceptions which connect more directly to the Baroque tradition include Reger's organ toccatas. [/b]
Another modern toccata that is more connected to the Baroque multipart idea, rather than to the Czerny/Schumann perpetual motion concept, is the Busoni toccata. It's one of Busoni's best works, I think, fairly compact, and quite powerful in effect. I'm surprised it's not played more often. It's difficult, but not ridiculous.

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#553122 - 02/02/09 07:51 AM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13763
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I also like the Muczynski Toccata, and the toccata from Ravel's Tombeau de Couperin.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#553123 - 02/02/09 12:32 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
I'll add the Bach C minor. Simply perfect.
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#553124 - 02/02/09 01:26 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Liszt_BG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 338
Loc: Bulgaria
Bach E minor

Schumann

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#553125 - 02/02/09 03:49 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
GreenRain Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/08
Posts: 888
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
 Quote:
Originally posted by sotto voce:
I like Chopin's 10/7.

Steven [/b]
:rolleyes:

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#553126 - 02/02/09 06:19 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Anders39 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 188
Loc: Norway
Prokofiev.
_________________________
"Silence is music too"

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#553127 - 02/02/09 06:35 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by GreenRain:
 Quote:
Originally posted by sotto voce:
I like Chopin's 10/7.

Steven [/b]
:rolleyes: [/b]
Well yeah, but the programmatic titles for so many of the others seem silly and superfluous. This nickname is one of the most well deserved IMHO but least known, so I had to throw it out there.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#553128 - 02/02/09 07:09 PM Re: Battle of the Toccatas!
Quite a Delight Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/08
Posts: 97
Alkan op.76no3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg-4GcfcC4k

Love this one too.
_________________________
Simply rather marvellous.

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