Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#555707 - 12/26/07 06:52 PM phrase marks and staccatos
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
If there are three notes, of different pitches, with a dot above or below each one, to be played without pedal, and with a phrase mark (a curve from the first note to the end) over them, how are they to be played?
_________________________
Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#555708 - 12/26/07 06:58 PM Re: phrase marks and staccatos
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
How are they to be played?

As a phrase.


Take those three words: "as a phrase."

How do you say them? Somewhat portamento (cross between stacatto and legato), I think. "As" (slight pause) "a" (slight pause) "phrase" (big gasp for breath).

But, even though they are all short words followed by little rests, we (most of us) don't sound like robots when we say them. We say them as a phrase. "As" is the first word, "a" is the middle word, and "phrase" is the last word. Depending on the context, maybe you would accent a little louder the "phra" of "phrase." Maybe, in a different context, somewhat exasperated, you would complain: "AAAAs a phRAAAAAse!"

But either way, they aren't all going to sound the same, even though they are all short and followed by pause. They are different parts one unit.
_________________________
Sam

Top
#555709 - 12/26/07 07:53 PM Re: phrase marks and staccatos
Antonius Hamus Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2230
The composer wishes you to perceive it as a phrase. That's all. If you play to an ignorant audience, and wish to share your understanding of the piece, you might want to project it somehow. But that's not always possible.

Top
#555710 - 12/26/07 07:58 PM Re: phrase marks and staccatos
Varcon Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1931
Loc: Mount Vernon, Georgia 30445
As Sam says, they are marked 'portamento' in this case (which is literally a singing term meaning to slide from one tone to another)but a better term might be 'mezzo-legato' or 'mezzo-staccato.' It indicates pretty much half & half--not quite staccato and not quite legato. I simply touch the key and release it but not sharply as in a staccato but with a slight 'gap' between tones. There are many instances of this marking in compositions so something worthy of study.

Top
#555711 - 12/26/07 08:03 PM Re: phrase marks and staccatos
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Well, it could still be very short stacatto, not portamento. But maybe each one wouldn't be equally short. They could get increasingly shorter or increasingly longer, or maybe the middle could be the longest, or the middle could be the shortest.

Or, it could be as you say mezzo-legato or portamento.

They could evenly crescendo, or evenly decrescendo, or go up and then down.

There might be a longer pause after the 3rd note... or maybe not. There might be a longer pause before the 1st note... or maybe not.


It depends on the context. Make it sound like a phrase, a 3-note phrase, but a phrase always in context. What will sound good in one context will certainly not sound good in another.
_________________________
Sam

Top
#555712 - 12/26/07 10:59 PM Re: phrase marks and staccatos
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17795
Loc: Victoria, BC
Whether sharply detached or semi-detached, the notes of this particular phrase - as the notes in all phrases - should lead[/b] somewhere. Make the phrase, however short or long it appears, and whatever the quality of the notes that make up the phrase, have a sense of direction, of going somewhere and arriving.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

Top
#555713 - 12/27/07 01:42 AM Re: phrase marks and staccatos
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
In the 18th century staccato was also used as an accent(see CPE's Versuch). I bring out notes with dots under slurs/phrases. In CPE Bach and Beethoven it means a 'bebung' (which you can't do on a piano).
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
European Piano Party 2014, Picts & Stories! (Piano Party in Portugal)
-------------------
75,000 Members and Growing!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) Purely Piano Practice Software
Purely Piano Practice Software
(ad) Piano Guide Lessons
Piano Guide Lessons
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
141 registered (Abby Pianoman, accordeur, ando, 36251, anotherscott, 41 invisible), 1618 Guests and 24 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75336 Members
42 Forums
155785 Topics
2287478 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New recording by PW's Joseph Kubera gets sensational...
by pianoloverus
Today at 10:50 AM
ETDs and New Life Forms
by tonyster220763
Today at 09:49 AM
Yamaha G2, $6195. Is Appraisal for Real?
by Paul678
Today at 08:51 AM
OT - Going Hiking
by Sam S
Today at 06:45 AM
Used import
by Cheeky
Today at 04:24 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission