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#563482 - 03/13/06 01:30 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
Heretic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 150
 Quote:
Originally posted by Sonata:
1. Tea Kalandadze
2. Dubravka Tomsic

I'm suprised that no one heard of these two great pianists.

3.Cyprien Katsaris
4. Martha Argerich
5.Krystian Zimerman
6.Evgeny Kissin
7.Alexis Weissenberg
8.Glenn Gould
9.Alfred Brendel
10. LangLang[/b]? \:\)

Never seen a thread go downhill so quickly

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#563483 - 03/13/06 01:35 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
Heretic Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 150
It would almost be excusable if Richter and Horowitz were actually AHEAD of Lang Lang on the list...but to suggeset Lang Lang is greater than them.............................................

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#563484 - 03/13/06 01:40 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
It's only his opinion, Heretic. ;\)

Maybe he hasn't heard Richter or Horowitz. Maybe he has, and he doesn't personally connect with their styles.
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#563485 - 03/13/06 01:47 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
Heretic Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 150
This is true, but would Lang Lang even be considered 20th century pianist??? More like 21st century..

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#563486 - 03/13/06 01:49 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
Well, I'd say he's late 20th and early 21st.

I'm not sure I would consider him one of the "best" of the 20th century, but he might very well become one of the "best" of the 21st. Who knows? He's still very young (23? 24?)
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#563487 - 03/13/06 02:02 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
Heretic Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 150
Well his (in)famous "breakthrough" occurred in 1999 when he substituted for andre watts so I suppose that puts him in the last year of 20th century but he didn't accomplish anything in 20th century...


on a side note though..I just read something interesting about him. People have been marvelling lately at those child prodigies that played some single Chopin etude at 14 or whatnot. It says here Lang Lang performed all 24 Chopin Etudes at age 13!

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#563488 - 03/13/06 02:04 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
pianojerome Offline
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
 Quote:
Originally posted by Heretic:
It says here Lang Lang performed all 24 Chopin Etudes at age 13! [/b]
Where is 'here'? (just out of curiosity, because I might read it if it's on the web)

I'd believe that. He's certainly got chops.
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Sam

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#563489 - 03/13/06 02:29 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
Heretic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 150
wikipedia

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#563490 - 03/13/06 04:40 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
Sonata Offline
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Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 313
Loc: AK, NZ
Well, I think if you like piano, you should heard of Richter or Horowitz. They were not in my list, that because I've got their CDs, but the quality of record is not very clear, so I might put them in 11 and 12. And Lang Lang might not belong to 20th, but he is really great in his age, I think we should judge by their skill or talent, not age. By the way, I am female. \:\)
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In my next life, I will become a pianist

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#563491 - 03/14/06 11:59 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
lol_nl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 918
Loc: Ede, Netherlands
I think he is great. Sonata can have her own opinion \:\) . Although I won't put him in my list, I can understand why people are putting him in the list. He is not THAT bad, come on...

I also understand why people dislike him, but he is so critisesed, he just doesn't deserve it. Keep in mind that he is still young and I think in the future he might ever grow up \:\) , no matter how many centuries it's going to take \:\) .

Why are people so harsh on a 23 (24?) year old who still has to develop his "true" musicality?
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#563492 - 03/14/06 08:23 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5313
Loc: Philadelphia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Heretic:
It would almost be excusable if Richter and Horowitz were actually AHEAD of Lang Lang on the list...but to suggeset Lang Lang is greater than them............................................. [/b]
*scoffs* What threw me was that someone put Lang Lang above Victor Borge. That just shouldn't be allowed. ;\)
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#563493 - 03/15/06 04:19 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
searchers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 26
Loc: canada
1-Hofmann
2-Rachmaninoff
3-Busoni
4-Horowitz
5-Godowsky
6-Richter
7-Rosenthal
8-Friedman
9-Serkin
10-Cortot
10-D'Albert
10-Paderewski

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#563494 - 03/15/06 04:28 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
searchers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 26
Loc: canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by yok:
I can't get any sort of order among my personal favourites, so I've ranked the ten who I think are the greatest in the sense of the influence they have had on 20th century piano playing and repertoire.

1.Horowitz
2.Schnabel
3.Rubinstein
4.Richter
5.E.Fischer
6.Gould
7.Cortot
8.Pollini
9.Gerald Moore
10.Menachem Pressler [/b]

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#563495 - 03/15/06 04:32 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
searchers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 26
Loc: canada
If you are ranking those who had the greatest influence on 20th century piano playing, I am very surprised that you do not mention Josef Hofmann. Artur Rubinstein, Horowitz and Gould were enormously influenced by Hofmann's playing - each heard him as a child. I am sure you read that Gould decided to become a concert pianist after coming home from Hofmann's last Toronto recital in 1938.

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#563496 - 03/15/06 05:12 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century
yok Offline
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Registered: 06/06/01
Posts: 464
Loc: New Zealand
I gave strong consideration to Hofmann (and many others). As you say, he was revered by many great pianists, including Rachmaninoff and both Josef and Rosina Lhevinne, who were in turn influential as performers and teachers. As the teacher of Cherkassky, Hofmann can be said to have passed down a certain nineteenth-century style of piano playing with a degree of freedom, personal idiosyncrasy and beautiful sound production well into the late twentieth-century. But when I was making my list I tried to think of who made twentieth century piano playing in terms of both repertoire and style. If you go to almost any recital today I think you could trace at least some of the programming and interpretation to the influence of one of the top 8. (Moore and Pressler are there, obviously, for the status they have given to the role of collaborative pianists.) With Hofmann, I'm not so sure this is the case. Maybe if a salon piece by Moszkowski or Weber or some such is played as an encore, you could point to Hofmann, but equally Horowitz, Bolet and others could be named. I guess this is all pretty academic but it is interesting nonetheless. It shows that even when you try to use an objective criterion (these are by no means my 10 favourite pianists) it is impossible really to agree.

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#2131094 - 08/11/13 04:14 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
pianistical Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 1377
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
1. Rubinstein (The most naturally talented pianist. His playing has nobility, beauty, spine and when called for a thundering steely fortissimo. The most versatile and total pianist IMO)
2. Rachmaninov
2. Alexei Sultanov (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrbJJ31EeLU)
3. Cortot
4. Kempff
5. Glenn Gould
6. Ashkenazy (when young)
7. Pletnev
8. Schnabel
9. Horowitz (Good but overated. A craftsman who indulges in in exaggerates colorful tonal production at the expense of honest and healthy playing. His banging on the keyboard sometimes feels very inorganic. To me he sounds artificial.
10. Richter (Good but overrated. Too heavy playing with little breathing air. His playing is solid like a rock. I just wish he would let in some air and sunshine to make his playing more complete.)


Edited by pianistical (08/11/13 04:20 AM)
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1913 Blüthner model 6
1929 Blüthner model 9.
1955 Steingraeber upright.

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#2131116 - 08/11/13 07:38 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7837
I wasn't tricked this time.

Sometimes you can tell a zombie thread from the peculiar odor that arises when you read the subject line and see an unfamiliar (i.e., long-gone) username as the original poster, but still, the thread runs to several pages. It just smells weird...

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#2131330 - 08/11/13 04:48 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
Serge Marinkovic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 341
Loc: United States
1. Rachmaninov-everything a delight. My teacher heard him practicing and listened to scales and scales in thirds along with excerpts of Bach WTC.
2. Richter- he is my personal favorite because of his exciting and innovative interpretations. Ex Liszt B Minor super loud or super soft a dream state, then super slow or super fast with perfect clarity and tone balance. A superb surgeons hands.
3. Kapell- at my last lesson with maestro Wild he felt Kapell to be in the category of Rach.
4. Horowitz-saw his last performance in NYC at the Met 1989, so much feeling in the air, his playing touched my soul for those moments like none other live.
5. Gilels- saw him at his last Carnegie Hall recital in April 1983? The second half's Schumann Symphonic Etudes left me in awe. The Bach WTC encore three or four measures into an early Prelude I stood up because his tone was so clear and perfect for Bach better than Gould at that moment. By the end of the fugue everyone in my row was standing. Just a perfect moment. Like Horowitz's last Traumeri at the MET in 1989. God for those few moments allowed human attainment of perfection.
6. Michalangeline (sp)
7. Sokolov- will rearrange my schedule in Winter/Spring 2014 to see him in Europe. I have waited too long.
8. Kempff
9. Lipatti
10. Pletnev- I have like Sokolov everything he has recorded with piano. Sublime pianist everything is held in a different light with him. Really going up in my estimation as his career seems to rekindle itself after an injury?

All superb technicians and artists and performed for 20 years or more. Lipatti died of Lukemia right at 20 years service and Kapell the same but from a plane accident. To be the best of the century need to be technically superb, superb and interesting artist, play at that level for at least twenty years [Cliburn service was not continuous or in latter years that technically free and artistically innovative]


Edited by Serge Marinkovic (08/11/13 05:00 PM)
_________________________
Serge P. Marinkovic, MD


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#2131711 - 08/12/13 11:41 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
WHY AM I NOT SEEING CLIBURN HERE???????????

Who cares if he was not "continuous". I'd rather have even 3 years of great, artistic playing than 50 years of horseshit.
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#2131747 - 08/12/13 12:21 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19762
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
WHY AM I NOT SEEING CLIBURN HERE???????????
....

Because the members who know best weren't here yet in '06. ha

But since then (like in this other thread) we do know. smile
Great that you love him too!

We've had threads like this more recently and Van has indeed gotten his due.

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#2131775 - 08/12/13 01:05 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1220
I'm just happy that Derelux got Victor Borge in there. I wasn't here in 2006, but I'm pretty sure that had Derelux not done that, I would have been summoned by some bat-signal wrinkle in the time-space continuum to come here and make sure it was done.
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#2133174 - 08/15/13 06:38 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
Michael Sayers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1125
Loc: Stockholms ln, Sverige
I'll have a go at this. Here are my personal nineteen - who is counting, right? - favourite (to replace the word "greatest") pianists for the 20th century - that is what we really are doing, right, listing favourites?

In no particular order:

1) Ferruccio Busoni
2) Alexander Siloti
3) Eugene d'Albert
4) Edwin Fischer
5) Ignacy Jan Paderewski
6) Ervin Nyiregyhazi
7) Raymond Lewenthal
8) Vladimir Horowitz
9) Vladimir de Pachmann
10) Edouard Risler
11) Josef Hofmann
12) Carl Reinecke (piano rolls only)
13) Egon Petri
14) Gunnar Johansen
15) Jorge Bolet
16) Ernst Levy
17) Louis Kentner
18) Raymond Trouard
19) Martin Berkofsky (he is the only one on the list who still is living!)

The list is subject to change without notice wink

M.

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#2133319 - 08/15/13 11:51 AM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Where is Cliburn????????
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#2133329 - 08/15/13 12:05 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19762
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Where is Cliburn????????

OK, you're forcing me to do a list. ha

In no particular order (not necessarily anyway grin -- just the order that I think of them) and apologies to the many that I'd like to include but "10" is "10."
Also I oughta say that on things like this I have sort of a bias against the younger ones, not because they're younger but because I think we really need the benefit of time to know how to consider them.
And BTW, while Michael had a point that what we're really doing is giving favorites, not really greatest, I'm trying to do the latter. The list would be a bit different for "favorites."

Horowitz
Rubinstein
Cliburn
Schnabel
Rachmaninoff
Hofmann
Argerich
Lhevinne
Gould

.....so, where are we so far: That's 9 -- room for one more. And to my surprise, this isn't as hard as I assumed it would be. That's really all the pianists I feel I 'have to' include. So, let's see, who do I give the honor of being 'the other one':

Paderewski

Remember that concepts of "greatness" can differ. I certainly don't mean that all of these 10 necessarily 'played the piano better' than any number of other pianists.

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#2133331 - 08/15/13 12:10 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
For me it would be:

Rachmaninov
Horowitz
Cliburn
Richter (you didn't include Richter/??? tsk tsk)
Rubinstein
Serkin
Schnabel
Tureck
Gould

And for me, 9 for now haha!

I agree that there is a difference between "favourite" and "greatest". I tried to stick with the latter, but of course most of my favourites seem to be in the "greatest" as well =)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2133342 - 08/15/13 12:18 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19762
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
(you didn't include Richter/??? tsk tsk)

I talked about him in this post on another thread.

I invited anyone to try to say what it is about Richter -- not just about what was so great, but what he really was at all; I never perceived him as having any clear identity. Nobody bit. (Argerichfan said a little about what he thought Richter brought to Brahms 2nd but that was it.)

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#2133345 - 08/15/13 12:20 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfJVpjI3wJM

Hear his Schubert, most of all.
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'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2133347 - 08/15/13 12:22 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19762
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfJVpjI3wJM

Hear his Schubert, most of all.

Sure. I like a lot of his performances and love a few of them. But that's true for dozens of other pianists.

What about what I asked up there.....can anybody try to say something about it?

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#2133351 - 08/15/13 12:29 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Heretic]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Say about what? Identity? Well, one thing obviously is that I can't imagine anybody else playing Schubert like that, he opened a whole new world there. It's his. And I think it's pretty special. You can argue the "no identity" card for every single pianist if you wanted to (except Horowitz probably, haha).

At the end of the day, to each their own. But surely we can learn to acknowledge greatness and give credit when credit is due...
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#2133616 - 08/15/13 11:29 PM Re: PW's 10 Greatest Pianists of 20th Century [Re: Mark_C]
vers la flan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 144
Hi Mark C, how are you?

Not entirely sure what you're asking for here regarding Richter. Some examples of how you would characterize the "identity" of other pianists would be helpful. But, I'll give it a shot.

Richter strikes me as a perfect balance of his bloodline -- a strict sense of structure from his German side and the hot-bloodedness from his Russian side. Thus, his interpretations at their very best have this mixture of a clear and consistent rhythmic underpinning combined with a controlled (sometimes just barely) impetuousness. In many ways, it's a perfect metaphor for the contradictory aspects of his nature and identity. There's a reason why his documentary is subtitled "The Enigma." He's a difficult personality to pin down. Reading his memoirs and notes and interviews, he strikes me as rather self-effacing and aloof about certain things that others might consider essential real world considerations, but he was very, very serious about music. Guarded, but wryly humorous and outspoken regarding his opinions on music and musicians. Not one to suffer fools gladly but reverent to those he admired.

... I also jotted a few things about how I perceive his pianism but afterward it seemed like the kind of stuff you weren't really looking for (?)

Incidentally, I'm unclear about the significance of nailing down an identity regarding what it has to do with one's art. But perhaps that would make more sense to me should you clarify what you're after here.

Cheers!

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