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#56490 - 10/08/08 10:16 AM Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9350
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
OR:

Why your child should play piano[/b]

On the Piano is a thing of the past thread, there was a great suggestion to "spread the gospel" of all the good things that playing piano does. I thought I would start a brief list of my feelings on the subject. Feel free to use these in conversation with parents or others who might like to try piano, but are not familiar with this information:

First of all, more than 2300 years ago, Plato said, “Music is a more potent instrument than any other for education, and children should be taught music before anything else.” Today, many studies show that listening to and playing music affects a child’s ability to learn. Music also helps children express emotions, gives them a sense of identity and self-confidence, and exposes them to other cultures.

Piano has a more profound effect than just about any other instrument because it can be the entire orchestra. There is so much linear thought (thought process needed to perform higher mathematics, to come to a scientific conclusion, etc.) going on when playing piano because many more musical desicions are made by a pianist than say, a rock guitarist or even a violinist.


♪ Lasting effects: Studies of children who play piano show higher levels of interest in academics (and exhibit higher GPAs), higher scores on cognitive competence tests (including math and reading), greater emotional growth, learn languages easier, and display better attitudes and behaviors.

♪ Skills gained: Children who study piano are working skills such as: fine and gross motor skills, attention span, self-esteem, math and reading skills, self-expression and communication, concentration levels, discipline, listening skills, logic skills, abstract thinking, memory, willingness to learn and creativity.

♪ The Mozart effect: In 1993, college students who listened to 10 minutes of Mozart scored 8 or 9 points higher on a spatial-temporal test than students with no music. In work with preschool children and keyboard lessons, researchers found that the children that received keyboard training performed 46% better on spatial- temporal tests than the other children. Spatial-temporal reasoning is a key to the higher brain functions required for mathematics, physics and engineering.

♪ The “Window of Opportunity”: As a child’s brain develops, connections are being made between trillions of neurons. If the brain does not use some of these neurons, it begins to eliminate them. The richer the environment of the child, the more developed the pathways of the neurons. The most powerful period of this development for both verbal and musical abilities occurs from birth to about age nine. Although this does not mean that a child cannot learn music after that age, the child will probably not develop as great an ability as they would have been able to had they been exposed to music earlier.

Please feel free to contribute. (Do you like my little music notes?) \:\)
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
www.cunninghampiano.com

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#56491 - 10/08/08 10:33 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
rada Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 1124
Loc: pagosa springs,co
Thank-you for sharing the wisdom of Plato. Put simply playing the piano is not only extremely fun but it certainly keeps you busy. I like to say there isn't enought time in a lifetime to learn all the pieces you would like to play....what a wonderful way to help keep your brain alive.

I am playing a concert today and will use this quote.

thanks,
rada

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#56492 - 10/08/08 10:50 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9350
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Way to go, rada!!
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
www.cunninghampiano.com

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#56493 - 10/08/08 11:05 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 695
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
Rich,

I know you said this already, but I want to emphasize it. DISCIPLINE!

How many kids waste are wasting away their childhoods parked in front of a tv or video game? Piano is the anti-video game. It can teach discipline, respect, and appreciation for finer things in life. Piano playing builds nueron pathways like you said. What is tv and gaming doing to those neurons?

Sports is another area where kids can learn discipline. And we certainly see many students drop piano lessons in favor of sports. Sports are definately a big improvement over tv and video games. I just wish that we could impress on parents and their kids that sports, for the most part, are a flash in the pan. It's great when a person is young, but what happens as the kid becomes an adult and ages? The body usually starts falling apart and most of those adults end up parking their butts in front of the tv to watch other people playing their pastime. Piano, and music in general, can provide personal growth and enrichment for a lifetime.

Dan
_________________________
Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/

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#56494 - 10/08/08 11:10 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14189
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
The other day someone was waiting at our door even before we opened the store.

The lady entered, looked around and said:

"I would like to buy a very good piano for our kids. We are o.k but not rich believing that music is very important - especially in today's crazy world."

At first I thought I didn't hear right then showed the lady around.

Realizing that she obviously meant business I took her to the row of our 49" uprights at which time she seemed to really like one particular model.

After giving her a smoking deal [$ 2000 below sale price] and delivering piano next day, she called me yesterday thanking us for such 'wonderful piano' - kids are fighting to get on it.

"What a wonderful world".

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#56495 - 10/08/08 11:13 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
eromlignod Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 379
Loc: Kansas City
As a pianist who started at age 8 and have played for 36 years (put down that calculator!!) I would just like to add something.

Learning as a child is much easier than learning as an adult. Unfortunately, many people don't develop an interest in studying the piano until they are adults and find out that it is difficult and that they may never be able to play at the level of those who started young. Kids don't realize how much they are going to long to play a musical instrument later in life.

To be able to play advanced piano as an adult is a enviable skill in the social world. You will be admired and praised by all. Other adults are always telling me, "I wish I had continued my piano lessons when I was younger. It must be wonderful to play whatever you want, whenever you want".

Don
Kansas City

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#56496 - 10/08/08 11:22 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
James Senior Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 342
Loc: England
I couldn't agree with all of you any more.
Two days ago my oldest brother heard me playing Liszt's concert paraphrase on Riggoleto. He hadn't heard me play in a while, and he came up to me and said "I can see that the piano is going to be your life-long mistress"
Although I wouldn't quite have put it like that myself, it's certainly going to be a life-long companion!
Start young if you can. It's the most rewarding hobby you can devote time to.

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#56497 - 10/08/08 02:43 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
 Quote:
Originally posted by DanLaura Larson:
Rich,

I know you said this already, but I want to emphasize it. DISCIPLINE!

How many kids waste are wasting away their childhoods parked in front of a tv or video game? Piano is the anti-video game. It can teach discipline, respect, and appreciation for finer things in life. Piano playing builds nueron pathways like you said. What is tv and gaming doing to those neurons?

Sports are definately a big improvement over tv and video games. I just wish that we could impress on parents and their kids that sports, for the most part, are a flash in the pan. It's great when a person is young, but what happens as the kid becomes an adult and ages? The body usually starts falling apart and most of those adults end up parking their butts in front of the tv to watch other people playing their pastime. Piano, and music in general, can provide personal growth and enrichment for a lifetime.

Dan [/b]
While I agree with you about music/piano and sports being positive, i must disagree with you about TV and video games.

Being a life long video game lover, playing more than 7 instruments and father of a 6 year old boy, I believe in a balance of things.
My son got his time slotted out for different activities including TV, video games and piano. For now, each day, he has 30 min of TV, 30 min of video (DS, Wii, PS3 - his choice), 30 - 45 min of piano practice. I myself don't watch TV but i always play video game and spend the entire time practicing piano with him.
"Finer" things in life are often difficult to define. For me, it's the things that you would enjoy and do it with the people you love.
I've seen enough parents pushing their own belief in life on their kids and not expose them to different things in life. I personally don't think it's positive to do so.
Piano for me is just another instrument and music is an enjoyable science but I am not sure I'll consider them finer than other things I would enjoy doing.

Just another perspective to share.

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#56498 - 10/08/08 02:57 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1531
Loc: New York
Just as muscles need exercise so does the brain. Playing piano is an excellent brain exercise for anyone.

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#56499 - 10/08/08 03:15 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
JDelmore Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 634
Great thread, Rich. You are soooo right that the piano is the 'anti-game'!! We've become a "done-to" society, seemingly, rather than a "doing" society. Perhaps that will change when fossil-derived electricity is more dear than various appendages--piano players will then RULE THE WORLD!!!

God bless you koiloco...your son will...but I would posit that you ARE 'pushing your beliefs' onto him--the belief that it's "okay" for boys (even grown ones) to play the piano, that it's fun, and that it's at least on par in importance with TV and VGs. IMHO, those are fine beliefs to "push"...
_________________________
PTG Associate Member

"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)

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#56500 - 10/08/08 03:37 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
Nice thread, Rich.

I’ll add that you don’t even have to play the piano very well to get some admiration and recognition from others; heck, as poorly as I play the piano some of my friends and coworkers think I’m good at it. I don’t know if they are just being polite or have never really heard a good pianist and don’t know the difference \:\) .

Moral of the story… any level of piano playing is a good, positive attribute to possess ;\) .

Best regards,

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#56501 - 10/08/08 03:52 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
wrong thread
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#56502 - 10/08/08 04:22 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
 Quote:
Originally posted by JDelmore:
Great thread, Rich. You are soooo right that the piano is the 'anti-game'!! We've become a "done-to" society, seemingly, rather than a "doing" society. Perhaps that will change when fossil-derived electricity is more dear than various appendages--piano players will then RULE THE WORLD!!!

God bless you koiloco...your son will...but I would posit that you ARE 'pushing your beliefs' onto him--the belief that it's "okay" for boys (even grown ones) to play the piano, that it's fun, and that it's at least on par in importance with TV and VGs. IMHO, those are fine beliefs to "push"... [/b]
JDelmore,
In my case, i did not do any pushing when it comes to all 3, TV, VGs and Piano. TV and VGs, i did not even need to ask but with piano, we did ask him if he wanted to learn and his answer was "yes". He was exposed to a lot of music and all my instruments since little so he could have developed some affection for it.
What I did push was the discipline to keep these 3 things in a healthy balance. So I guess in a way, as a whole, I try to teach/pass on to him my belief in balance of things but by no mean, I'd negatively push it on him.

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#56503 - 10/08/08 04:55 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 695
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
Koiloco,

I think your approach to tv and vgs is great. If all kids had that kind of structure then everything would be great. But I look at my nieces and nephews who spend their entire summer vacation holed up in the basement playing vgs or watching tv, with no other responsibility than mowing the lawn once a week. I realize they are the other extreme, but I think their parents are more typical than responsible parents like you.

And I have to add that I just recently quit playing World of Warcraft, after two years of it. My wife is so much happier now. There are millions and millions of people who are addicted to gaming and can't control themselves.

I wish that my parents had made me sit down and take piano lessons. But I am now starting to take lessons from Laura.

Dan
_________________________
Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/

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#56504 - 10/08/08 05:40 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
lol Dan, half of my friends are on WoW. I always have been afraid to start a mmorpg even though my friends keep inviting me to join. I think people are addicted to the social interaction more than the game itself. I did and still play occasionally a mmorpg called "9 Dragons". But when I log on, I enjoy chatting with friends more than grinding the game itself. I met a lot of local people through this game and became friends. It's kind of funny cuz I came from a single player platform.
It's great that you're taking lessons from Laura but don't give up gaming either if you still enjoy it. Just keep it in balance \:\)

Good to see another gamer on this forum !

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#56505 - 10/08/08 06:22 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 695
Loc: Pocatello, Idaho
Koiloco,

I have a couple of games on my PC that I play maybe 2 hours a week lately, but no more mmorpg games for me. ;\)

Dan
_________________________
Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/

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#56506 - 10/08/08 06:28 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Aley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 82
Loc: Albuquerque, NM, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rickster:
I’ll add that you don’t even have to play the piano very well to get some admiration and recognition from others; heck, as poorly as I play the piano some of my friends and coworkers think I’m good at it. I don’t know if they are just being polite or have never really heard a good pianist and don’t know the difference \:\) .[/b]
Ain't that the truth! I rarely play for anybody (mostly because I'm decidedly mediocre, have very little repertoire that I can actually play even halfway well, and what repertoire I do have is very basic), yet any time friends hear me play I get told how good I am.

Maybe they're just stroking my ego, but I really think that most people can't tell the difference. I have a year of lessons as a child, two years of self-teaching as an adult, and I get almost as much respect from most people as a concert pianist!

I agree with koiloco, balance is the key. When my kids start lessons they won't have to give up video games or computer time, just fit one more thing into their schedules. (FWIW, I never watch TV, so I'm not sure they realize that that black box in the corner does anything more than play educational videos!)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is this: Being able to play the piano also makes you desirable to the opposite sex. If your kids don't care about that yet, they will soon enough (or maybe too soon!)

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#56507 - 10/08/08 07:24 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Jonnie P. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 216
Loc: Seattle, WA
Rich - Thanks so much for the great post. My three month old is being fed a steady diet of Keith Jarrett (ballads) and Bill Evans solo piano. It always mellows him out when he's fussy and it's amazing how long it keeps him focused.

They say the first colors a baby can see are black and white - for example, a keyboard! Coincidence? I think not.
_________________________
Jonnie P.
Seattle, WA

Kawai RX-2 ES

Obsessive behaviour: Jazz and other forms of piano improvisation

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#56508 - 10/08/08 07:52 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
DarkGreenChocolate Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Michigan
I heard that the "Mozart Effect" had been discredited. Either way, I salute Rich's and others' enthusiasm, and, if push comes to shove, I agree that it's worth using whatever argument works to stoke people's interest in the piano. However, I must confess that I tend to bristle at the "Mozart Effect" and similar ideas. Whenever I admit to people that I like classical music, they either look at me like I have six heads, or they say, "Good for you!" as if I've just claimed to eat oatmeal and engage in vigorous exercise daily. This makes me a bit crazy, because I don't listen to (or play) classical music because it's "good for me," and I doubt anyone else does either. You have to love it, I think, to pursue it beyond the first "Classical Music for People Who Hate Classical Music" CD or "Keyboard for Dummies" book. And I fear that, just as millions of people abandon exercise routines b/c they've never found a way to make them enjoyable, many try to take classical music TOO seriously and turn themselves off to it.

The only better solution I can offer is the "playing with the windows open" strategy from the other thread. The saucer eyes of a child watching someone actually coaxing sound out of that funny-shaped piece of furniture are better than all the brain studies in the world.

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#56509 - 10/09/08 08:57 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9350
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
 Quote:
I heard that the "Mozart Effect" had been discredited.
[/b]

While it is true that in the mid - '90s the Mozart Effect was looked at as a panacea to all things brain related, there have been many other studies that make unmistakable connections between music and many higher brain functions.

Look up the work of Dr. Francis Rauscher and Dr. Shaw on the subject. Look up what James Catterell has found.

In 1998, there was an interesting presentation made at the Society of Neuroscience[/b] meeting in Los Angeles by Dr. Lawrence Parsons. This is his summary:

"An understanding of the brain locations that represent the separate aspects of music will help us identify the neural mechanisms that are specific to music, specific to language and are shared between the two," says Parsons. "The finding that there is a right brain region for notes and musical passages that corresponds in location to a left brain region for letters and words illustrates how a neural mechanism may be present in each of the two brain hemispheres becomes special adapted for analogous purposes but with different information contexts."

The connection between language and music is well documented. So is the connection between music and spatial relations, music and science, and music and math.

My concern is that making the statement you did Dark Green without backing it up with specifics can leave someone with the impression that all of this research is "smoke and mirrors", which it clearly is not.

My 2 cents,
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
www.cunninghampiano.com

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#56510 - 10/09/08 09:30 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
NoctuGranes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 285
Loc: Northeast USA
Forget about music making me smart. The older I get the more I hope that playing will help ward off dementia. Use it or lose it.

...otherwise when the carrots start blooming on that upper Bb the rabbit eating the greens will bump my hand on that high arpeggio and my stinking saxophone will be useless.
_________________________
-Nocty
Not in the piano business.
1906 Baldwin C rebuilt 2008

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#56511 - 10/09/08 10:18 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5636
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
PIANISTS HAVE MORE EFFICIENT BRAINS

by Dr. Norman M. Weinberger



Scientists in Germany have discovered that pianists have more efficient brains. A group led by Dr. Timo Krings required pianists and non-musicians of the same age and sex to perform complex sequences of finger movements. Their brains were scanned using a technique called "functional magnetic resonance imaging" (fMRI) which detects the activity levels of brain cells, by measuring changes in blood flow. The non-musicians were able to make the movements as correctly as the pianists. However, the amount of brain activity in areas controlling movement was different. The pianists made the correct movements while having less brain activation.

Thus, compared to non-musicians, the brains of pianists are more efficient at making skilled movements. These findings show that musical training can enhance brain function [source: Neuroscience Letters, 2000, 278, 189-198]

This article is reprinted with permission of the author from Musica Research Notes, (Volume VII, Issue 2, Spring 2000). For further information, contact MuSICA at www.musica.uci.edu/index.html


Classical Music's Traditional Audience Is Graying.
By the year 2030, approximately half of our nation's population will be over 65 years of age. Music educators have the power to make Classical music matter again to young people.
(Source: Chamber Music, February 1998; a publication of Chamber Music America)

Music Students Are Scoring.
Music students are outperforming non-music students on the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT). College-bound seniors with coursework or experience in music performance scored 52 points higher on the verbal portion and 37 points higher on the math portion of the SAT than students with no coursework or experience in the arts.
(Source: The College Board, September 1997)

Music Is Beating Computers
at Enhancing Early Childhood Development. Music training, specifically piano instruction, is far superior to computer instruction in dramatically enhancing children's abstract reasoning skills necessary for learning math and science. Learning music at an early age causes long-term enhancement of spatial- temporal reasoning.
(Source: Frances Rauscher, Ph.D., Gordon Shaw, Ph.D., University of California, Irvine, 1997)

Music Enhances Linguistic Skills.
Music -- specifically song -- is one of the best training grounds for babies learning to recognize the tones that add up to spoken language.
(Source: Sandra Trehub, University of Toronto, 1997)

America Is A Country Full Of Music-Makers.
113 million, or 53%, of Americans over the age of 12 are current or former music makers.
(Source: 1997 "American Attitudes Towards Music" poll conducted by the Gallup Organization)

Americans Say Schools Should Offer Instrumental Music Instruction
as part of the regular curriculum. 88% of respondents indicated this in a 1997 "American Attitudes Towards Music" Gallup poll.
(Source: Music Trades, September 1997)

Scientists, Therapists Agree: Music Heals More Than Just The Spirit.
Music benefits older adults. Active music-making positively affects the biology and behavior of Alzheimer's patients.
(Source: Music Making and Wellness Project, a study conduc ted at the University of Miami)

The Window Of Opportunity For Studying Music
is between the ages of three and ten. This is the time when we are the most receptive to and able to process music.
(Source: Newsweek, February 19, 1996)

Studying Music Strengthens Students' Academic Performance.
Rhode Island studies have indicated that sequential, skill-building instruction in art and music integrated with the rest of the curriculum can greatly improve children's performance in readi ng and math.
(Source: "Learning Improved by Arts Training" by Martin Gardiner, Alan Fox, Faith Knowles, and Donna Jeffrey, Nature, May 23, 1996)

Music and Spatial Task Performance: A Causal Relationship.
Music lessons, and even simply listening to music, can enhance spatial reasoning performance, a critical higher-brain function necessary to perform complex tasks including mathematics.
(Source: Frances Fauscher, Ph.D., Gordon Shaw, Ph.D., University of California, Irvine, 1994)

The Mozart Effect
surfaced about four years ago when research uncovered that adults who listened to music of complexity for ten minutes or so experienced temporary increases in their spatial IQ scores.
(Source: Frances Rauscher, Ph.D.,Gordon Shaw, Ph.D., University of California, Irvine,1993-1994)

Music Is One of Our Greatest Economic Exports.
"The arts are an economic plus -- second only to aerospace as our most lucrative national export."
(Source: Michael Greene of The National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences)

Music Teacher Expertise is a Critical Factor in Student Learning.
Research indicates that teachers of all subjects -- including music -- who are more experienced and educated are more effective in the classroom. Consequently, students learn more from them.
(Source: Paying for Public Education: New Evidence on How and Why Money Matters, by Ronald Ferguson, 1991)


And even if it didn't do all the stuff listed above, it's FUN! (source: Piano World:Frank Baxter, 2008)
_________________________
- Frank B.
Founder / Host
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www.PianoSupplies.com
Find Us On:
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-------------------------
It's Fun To Play the Piano ... PLEASE Pass It On!
And please invite everyone you know to join our piano forums!
Coming to Maine? We're in Parsonsfield (southwest) let's get together!


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#56512 - 10/09/08 11:21 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i chuckle when i hear my kids whistle bach fugues...

(not that #2 is doing well in school)
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#56513 - 10/09/08 11:22 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
The Piano a Thing of the Past!

The past having been over 300 compelling years of piano or keyboard music development!

And, the improvement of the instrument itself!

The affordability of keyboards and marketed piano study systems - in print and in computer form - as well as in group and individual instruction.

Piano has not been sitting still, has it!

Piano is a vessel that needs a willing brain to match the genius of the instrument's capacity - both in performance and composition.

Don't underestimate the attraction of the piano!

Don't minimize the human spirit's need for challenging endeavors.

Piano, the original "Game Boy". Things exciting and electrofying, capable of building a person to their human capacity through making music.

Discipline? Absolutely!
Harnessing brain waves and paths? Absolutely!
The piano is a thing of the past? Absolutely NOT!Far out? Yes, far out into the future.

Betty

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#56514 - 10/09/08 01:39 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7265
Loc: torrance, CA
I first ran into some of the articles quoted by Frank B at a Back to School mtg. at a local middle school a few years ago. The band teacher was addressing parents whose kids had enrolled in school band. She handed out a packet of different articles that linked music learning to overall GPA, growth of brain power, success in adult life etc. etc.

Band is a huge competitor to piano, especially to acoustic piano. These articles do not prove that the acoustic piano is any more beneficial in achieving brain fitness or academic success than the digital piano, the violin, or membership in the school chorus.

The problem with the acoustic piano industry is that it, like the instrument it manufactures, is unplugged from the world of today. Just as a digital piano allows connection to a whole world of electronic media, so does the society we live in allow us as consumers to be plugged into Internet communities around the world.

Electronic age consumers want transparency in product origin, component origin, and PRICING. The antiquated (and in many cases deplorable and dishonest)) conditions that exist today in the marketing of pianos will not get the job done. Those who keep the torch lit for acoustic pianos and the classical lit written for them do so out of an emotional response to the instrument and the literature. In so doing, they accept the bad with the good. Unfortunately, the greatest numbers of those who carry the torch are in older age groups. If you pan down the demographics age chart, the torch is flickering.

The piano industry has too many brands, too many models, too many lies, too many subterfuges, and no professional association to certify its good members and hold accountable all the peripheral hucksters, charlatans, and liars who populate its fringes.

NAMM serves the music industry, not the acoustic piano industry. Expecting NAMM to guarantee the acoustic piano's place in the scheme of things is expecting too much. Time to pass the hat and get your own association to advance your own agenda and clean up your image. Saying "I support NAMM" is like saying "I gave at the office".
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#56515 - 10/09/08 02:27 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
koiloco Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 622
Loc: California
Turandot, your best post so far that I've read \:\)
You are dead on !!!

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#56516 - 10/10/08 05:10 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9350
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
turandot said:
 Quote:
The problem with the acoustic piano industry is that it, like the instrument it manufactures, is unplugged from the world of today. Just as a digital piano allows connection to a whole world of electronic media, so does the society we live in allow us as consumers to be plugged into Internet communities around the world.

Electronic age consumers want transparency in product origin, component origin, and PRICING. The antiquated (and in many cases deplorable and dishonest)) conditions that exist today in the marketing of pianos will not get the job done. Those who keep the torch lit for acoustic pianos and the classical lit written for them do so out of an emotional response to the instrument and the literature. In so doing, they accept the bad with the good. Unfortunately, the greatest numbers of those who carry the torch are in older age groups. If you pan down the demographics age chart, the torch is flickering.

The piano industry has too many brands, too many models, too many lies, too many subterfuges, and no professional association to certify its good members and hold accountable all the peripheral hucksters, charlatans, and liars who populate its fringes.
[/b]

Wow,

Turandot, I have to say that I was disappointed by the nature of your post. I truly feel that in your post you have embraced the very worst of the piano industry, and while it does exist, it is a very small part of what happens on a day to day basis, at least in my experience.

My goal was to give ammunition to those who desired to "spread the gospel" of the joys of the acoustic piano and nothing more. My hope was to give a talking point or two to an avid amatuer that might strike a chord (no pun intended) with someone who might consider taking up the instrument. After all, when children are concerned, it is the parents that will influence what their activities are.

Frankly, I am not concerned with the amount of models and prices available on the market. I am very concerned, however, that the option of an acoustic piano is something that remains available for generations.

Yes, digital pianos can be cheaper - because they are cheaper to make. Yes, kids can play band instruments, or take karate, or play soccer. These are good things, too. They are also what piano competes against. The challenge is choice of time spent, IMHO. Yes, we need more information available on pianos, but as it is there is more available than ever before.

As far as your other points are concerned, if I wish to look for weeds in any industry, I will find them. Of course they are there.

I remain truly disappointed.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
www.cunninghampiano.com

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#56517 - 10/10/08 08:56 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7265
Loc: torrance, CA
Rich,

I'm not trying to please or disappoint anyone. Would you rather I state my honest opinion or would you rather I say something to please you?

On the last post of the thread that you have said "inspired" yours, Frank B said:

 Quote:
We're doing our part. Are you?

Well, I've bought and paid for three acoustic pianos in the past two years. One of those was a gift for a younger member of the family who teaches piano for a living. As best as I know, our host doesn't own an acousitc piano.

You can infer from my purchases that I have no problem with the instruments. There are some good choices at many different price levels. Plenty of good enough used ones are out there too for people who want to get started on a limited budget.

Apparently, we differ on what stands between the instrument and the individual seeking to purchase it. What you refer to as a few weeds seem to me to be pervasive practices in pricing, marketing, and product disclosure that make the purchase process confusing and sometimes disheartening. I certianly don't mean to imply that you are a weed, but I think it's a mistake for you to say

 Quote:
Frankly, I am not concerned with the amount of models and prices available on the market.
I think you should be concerned.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#56518 - 10/10/08 10:25 PM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1758
Wow, between the pesky turandot and the loveable Rich, I would have to be on turandot's side this time around.

I have purchased 1 digital piano and 2 grand pianos sofar. I am planning to purchase a 3rd grand piano in a couple of years. I still can't see through piano pricing.

I enjoy playing pianos in showrooms here and there already, but I abhor the complete obfuscation of piano pricing.

Although I am very willing to UNDERSTAND that most piano dealers make an honest living, I ALWAYS get the FEELING that ALL piano dealers are out there to cheat me out of my money.

Why? Obfuscation of piano pricing.

In stark contrast to open pricing on just about any product on the market.

Edit: Oops, I just noticed that the discussion has been going off-topic. Sorry!
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#56519 - 10/11/08 10:14 AM Re: Inspired by "The piano is a thing of the past"
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7265
Loc: torrance, CA
Doremi,

"Pesky" Turandot thanks you for your qualified support \:D , but doesn't feel that you need to choose here between him and the "loveable" Rich. Loveable Rich is living his beliefs and putting his money where his mouth is. Pesky Turandot admires that greatly.

Pesky Turandot feels that the acoustic piano is fighting for survival against some formidable odds.....shifting cultural tastes, incredible leaps in music technology, and economic difficulties worldwide. Pesky Turandot does not buy the argument that today's youth are unfocused lazy louts however. This is a gigantic cop-out that is trotted out whenever the older generation fails to understand the younger one.

Pesky Turandot feels that the piano industry is too small to attack the big-picture problems head-on, and should focus on internal problems that are more within its control....antiquated marketing, an embarrassing pricing structure, and a cannibalistic free-for-all where its 'professional' retailers routinely slam each other's product lines, selling practices, and personal character.

Pesky Turandot does not feel that this is the time to sit around the campfire with held hands and closed eyes saying that the acoustic piano is a marvelous instrument and everything will be okay. Pesky Turandot (and maybe pesky Doremi \:D ) would prefer that the piano industry do some housekeeping and clean up its act by initiating a professional organization that lays out specific truth-in-advertising, selling, and pricing practices, and enforces compliance with these practices by certifying its members who play ball and identifying its members who don't.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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